Guest Paula N Posted April 5, 2017 at 06:26 AM Report Share Posted April 5, 2017 at 06:26 AM If a resignation is accepted with a effective date when is it "executed". On the day board accepts it. Or on the effective date. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted April 5, 2017 at 08:08 AM Report Share Posted April 5, 2017 at 08:08 AM RONR doesn't use the term "executed" so I'm not clear what you are asking. Take a look at pages 291 & 467 and see if the discussion there clear things up for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transpower Posted April 5, 2017 at 12:38 PM Report Share Posted April 5, 2017 at 12:38 PM I cannot find a citation in RONR, but my understanding is that a resignation is effective when the board accepts it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Goodwiller, PRP Posted April 5, 2017 at 03:01 PM Report Share Posted April 5, 2017 at 03:01 PM As stated above, RONR doesn't use the term "execute," but assuming a resignation's "execution" is the same thing as its "effectiveness," people resign with future "effective" dates all the time (as in, "I am resigning as CEO of this company effective June 1st"). And RONR states "the duties of a position must not be abandoned until a resignation has been accepted and becomes effective" (RONR pg. 291, ll. 10-11, emphasis added). I see no limitation in that statement that requires the the "acceptance" and the "effectiveness" to be simultaneous. So if the board accepts the effective date, then that is when the resignation becomes effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted April 5, 2017 at 03:31 PM Report Share Posted April 5, 2017 at 03:31 PM I agree with Mr. Goodwiller. I believe that a resignation becomes irrevocable when it is accepted, regardless of the"effective date" of the resignation. Acceptance and effective date are two different things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Goldsworthy Posted April 6, 2017 at 02:40 AM Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 at 02:40 AM 20 hours ago, Guest Paula N said: If a resignation is accepted with a effective date when is it "executed". On the day board accepts it. Or on the effective date. The Book fails to address such things as "conditional resignations" and "future effective date" resignations. So there won't be any explicit page to cite. *** But we can apply parliamentary principles for other future actions. For example, If the board adopts a motion, "That the final day for submitting a raffle ticket for the Easter drawing shall be Wednesday April 30," then the board is still free to meet prior to April 30 and free to Amend Something Previously Adopted and move the date, either forward or back. Why is this allowed? Because April 30 is not yet here, and the deadline is therefore not yet recognized as invalidating anything. It is unexecuted. *** Similarly for a resignation: If the board meets before the date of the future date's finality of a resignation, and if the party resigning changes his mind, then the board may Amend Something Previously Adopted, or Rescind, the submitted resignation's date. (You cannot force a resignation upon an unwilling party. You must use the disciplinary procedures to remove a party from the position. -- Unless the position is trivial, like a committee position, or a non-fixed term-of-office.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted April 6, 2017 at 11:44 AM Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 at 11:44 AM RONR (11th ed., p. 308) makes it very clear that motions to Rescind and to Amend Something Previously Adopted are not in order when a resignation has been acted upon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted April 6, 2017 at 12:19 PM Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 at 12:19 PM 34 minutes ago, Daniel H. Honemann said: RONR (11th ed., p. 308) makes it very clear that motions to Rescind and to Amend Something Previously Adopted are not in order when a resignation has been acted upon. When you say "acted upon", in the case of a future effective date for a resignation, are you referring to the adoption of the motion to accept the resignation, or the future effective date when the resigner is officially gone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted April 6, 2017 at 12:31 PM Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 at 12:31 PM 10 minutes ago, jstackpo said: When you say "acted upon", in the case of a future effective date for a resignation, are you referring to the adoption of the motion to accept the resignation, or the future effective date when the resigner is officially gone? I'm referring to the adoption of the motion to accept the proffered resignation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Goldsworthy Posted April 6, 2017 at 04:48 PM Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 at 04:48 PM Quote c) When a resignation has been acted upon, or a person has been elected to or expelled from membership or office, and the person was present or has been officially notified of the action. (The only way to reverse an expulsion is to follow whatever procedure is prescribed by the bylaws for admission or reinstatement. For the case of an election, see pp. 653‑54 regarding removal of a person from office.) Page 308 letter C assumes that the resignation is one which has no conditions, or which has no future effective date. Page 308 assumes a resignation is an unconditional resignation. -- No conditions. *** If a resignation has multiple conditions, (like 2 or 3 or 4 scenarios), and one of the conditions fails, then the resignation never takes place. (Think of the example, "If I land a new job out of state, then I must resign as treasurer. I will know by December 31st if I am hired.") If the "resignation" never takes place (if the crucial condition is false), then the adoption of the resignation will have removed no one from anything. You won't have an effective resignation until the deadline arrives, and 100% of the conditions are confirmed as being true. (The main motion may be worded akin to: "That the resignation or Mr. Smith be accepted, contingent on Mr. Smith's employment situation changing by December 31st." -- Q. If Mr. Smith is rejected by the employer by November, is the board forbidden to rescind this main motion? Will Mr. Smith no longer be treasurer beyond December 31st?) **** In such a case, those who argue otherwise must argue that the board (or party responsible for accepting resignations) cannot re-negotiate the multiple conditions, prior to the effective date. And that does not make sense, since you truly have un-executed parts of an adopted motion, and, perhaps, two parties both willing to negotiate the conditions anew. Since no one has been removed from office, there would be no parliamentary way to re-elect or re-appoint the person to the same position prior to the deadline. And that makes no sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted April 6, 2017 at 06:40 PM Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 at 06:40 PM 1 hour ago, Kim Goldsworthy said: Page 308 letter C assumes that the resignation is one which has no conditions, or which has no future effective date. Page 308 assumes a resignation is an unconditional resignation. -- No conditions. You're assuming p. 308 assumes that. And that makes no sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted April 6, 2017 at 06:48 PM Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 at 06:48 PM 1 hour ago, Kim Goldsworthy said: Page 308 letter C assumes that the resignation is one which has no conditions, or which has no future effective date. Page 308 assumes a resignation is an unconditional resignation. -- No conditions. *** Baloney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted April 6, 2017 at 07:05 PM Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 at 07:05 PM 7 hours ago, Daniel H. Honemann said: RONR (11th ed., p. 308) makes it very clear that motions to Rescind and to Amend Something Previously Adopted are not in order when a resignation has been acted upon. Dan, if the board accepts an officer's resignation, with an effective date in the future, and prior to the effective date the officer wishes to continue serving, is the only way for the board to grant this request to elect the officer to fill the vacancy caused by his own resignation? Or is there another option? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted April 6, 2017 at 07:22 PM Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 at 07:22 PM (edited) 2 hours ago, Kim Goldsworthy said: Page 308 letter C assumes that the resignation is one which has no conditions, or which has no future effective date. Page 308 assumes a resignation is an unconditional resignation. -- No conditions. 34 minutes ago, Daniel H. Honemann said: Baloney. 43 minutes ago, George Mervosh said: You're assuming p. 308 assumes that. And that makes no sense. I agree with Messrs Honemann and Mervosh. I see no such limitation in RONR. Also. There are no "conditions" to this resignation. It is simply prospective, meaning it takes effect on a future date. Such resignations are quite common with elected officials, in business and in private voluntary societies. It makes for better planning and easier transitions. Edited April 6, 2017 at 07:25 PM by Richard Brown Added last sentence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Goldsworthy Posted April 7, 2017 at 06:59 PM Report Share Posted April 7, 2017 at 06:59 PM Quote If a resignation is submitted which says it is effective December 31, and if the resignation is adopted November 1 (i.e., 60 days' margin), and if the party who is resigning changes his mind, and wishes to keep his position, THEN There is no way to undo the resignation. The motion is not subject to rescission, nor subject to amendment. • The party is out, as of December 31, and there is no way to stop this from happening. Q. Is that your interpretation of page 308? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted April 7, 2017 at 07:16 PM Report Share Posted April 7, 2017 at 07:16 PM On 4/6/2017 at 3:05 PM, Josh Martin said: Dan, if the board accepts an officer's resignation, with an effective date in the future, and prior to the effective date the officer wishes to continue serving, is the only way for the board to grant this request to elect the officer to fill the vacancy caused by his own resignation? Or is there another option? I don't see any reason why the board could not agree to the officer's request to rescind (withdraw) his resignation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Goldsworthy Posted April 7, 2017 at 08:12 PM Report Share Posted April 7, 2017 at 08:12 PM Q. How does one "withdraw" an adopted motion? -- which is already executed? What page in RONR supports this notion? You cannot amend it. You cannot rescind it. Therefore, what can you do with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted April 7, 2017 at 08:25 PM Report Share Posted April 7, 2017 at 08:25 PM 8 minutes ago, Kim Goldsworthy said: Q. How does one "withdraw" an adopted motion? -- which is already executed? What page in RONR supports this notion? You cannot amend it. You cannot rescind it. Therefore, what can you do with it? No one has said anything about withdrawing an adopted motion. If the officer asks for permission to withdraw his resignation, the board may permit him to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis Hunt Posted April 7, 2017 at 11:23 PM Report Share Posted April 7, 2017 at 11:23 PM 2 hours ago, Daniel H. Honemann said: If the officer asks for permission to withdraw his resignation, the board may permit him to do so. Through what process? It seems to me that permitting the officer to do so would conflict with the previous action, namely the acceptance of the resignation, which the Board has no power to rescind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted April 8, 2017 at 09:24 AM Report Share Posted April 8, 2017 at 09:24 AM The board cannot unilaterally rescind its acceptance of a resignation, but it can agree to an officer's request for permission to withdraw his resignation if he makes such a request before his resignation has become effective. This may be done by unanimous consent, or by the adoption (by majority vote) of an incidental main motion to permit withdrawal of the resignation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. J. Posted April 8, 2017 at 12:08 PM Report Share Posted April 8, 2017 at 12:08 PM 2 hours ago, Daniel H. Honemann said: The board cannot unilaterally rescind its acceptance of a resignation, but it can agree to an officer's request for permission to withdraw his resignation if he makes such a request before his resignation has become effective. This may be done by unanimous consent, or by the adoption (by majority vote) of an incidental main motion to permit withdrawal of the resignation. I would take it that rules could not be suspended to permit the board, unilaterally, to rescind the a resignation that becomes effective at a future time. Is that correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis Hunt Posted April 8, 2017 at 02:02 PM Report Share Posted April 8, 2017 at 02:02 PM 4 hours ago, Daniel H. Honemann said: The board cannot unilaterally rescind its acceptance of a resignation, but it can agree to an officer's request for permission to withdraw his resignation if he makes such a request before his resignation has become effective. This may be done by unanimous consent, or by the adoption (by majority vote) of an incidental main motion to permit withdrawal of the resignation. Is there a citation for this? I couldn't find anything to that effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted April 8, 2017 at 02:40 PM Report Share Posted April 8, 2017 at 02:40 PM I don't think there is as RONR doesn't consider the case of a "delayed", or effective in the future, resignation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted April 8, 2017 at 02:48 PM Report Share Posted April 8, 2017 at 02:48 PM 2 hours ago, J. J. said: I would take it that rules could not be suspended to permit the board, unilaterally, to rescind the a resignation that becomes effective at a future time. Is that correct? Yes, I think this is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Who's Coming to Dinner Posted April 8, 2017 at 04:21 PM Report Share Posted April 8, 2017 at 04:21 PM 2 hours ago, Alexis Hunt said: Is there a citation for this? I couldn't find anything to that effect. It's just logic, isn't it? The resignation does not "belong" to the assembly that has accepted it. They may not be able to undo their acceptance, but they can allow the resignation to be withdrawn, in which case the acceptance becomes moot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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