Motion to amend by motion maker ?

[Guest SAA]

 May a motion maker move to amend his/her own motion .If so where is that stated in RONR ?

Thank - you 

[Hieu H. Huynh]

Yes. See RONR 11th ed., p. 297, ll.27-29 for a possibility.

[Guest SAA]

Thank - you  Mr. Huynh . However ,this is not  seemingly an  answer    to my question .

Page  297 RONR  refers to the " modify  " process where permission  must be asked . My question is :  Can the motion maker move to amend his /her motion ,just as would any other member , seeking to offer an amendment . ? 

Can anyone answer  that ,and what reference to RONR  provides for that 

Thank - you  anyone !

[Hieu H. Huynh]

A member has the right to make motions (p. 3).

[Richard Brown]

28 minutes ago, Guest SAA said:

Thank - you  Mr. Huynh . However ,this is not  seemingly an  answer    to my question .

Page  297 RONR  refers to the " modify  " process where permission  must be asked . My question is :  Can the motion maker move to amend his /her motion ,just as would any other member , seeking to offer an amendment . ? 

Can anyone answer  that ,and what reference to RONR  provides for that 

Thank - you  anyone !

How about this language from pages 295-296:

"REQUEST FOR PERMISSION (OR LEAVE) TO WITHDRAW OR MODIFY A MOTION. Conditions for withdrawing or modifying a motion depend upon how soon the mover states his wish to withdraw or modify it. Permission for him to do so is required only after the motion to which it pertains has been stated by the chair as pending.
Before a motion has been stated by the chair, it is the property of its mover, who can withdraw it or modify it without asking the consent of anyone. Thus, in the brief interval between the making of a motion and the time when the chair [page 296] places it before the assembly by stating it, the maker can withdraw it as follows:
MEMBER A (who made the motion): Madam President, I withdraw the motion.
Or:
MEMBER A (who made the motion): Mr. President, I wish to modify the motion by striking out "demand" and inserting "urge."
In the same interval also, another member can ask if the maker of the motion is willing to withdraw it or accept a change in it, which suggestion the maker can either accept or reject. In such a case the chair either announces, "The motion has been withdrawn," or states the question on the modified motion. If a motion is modified, the seconder can withdraw his second. When the seconder withdraws his second to the modified motion, the member who suggested the modification has, in effect, supplied a second.
After a motion has been stated by the chair, it belongs to the meeting as a whole, and the maker must request the assembly's permission to withdraw or modify his own motion, according to the rules stated in Standard Characteristics 1–8, above. In such cases the procedure is as follows."

Edited to add:  All of our citations are to the 11th edition of RONR.  Is that the edition you are using?  btw, the citation  Mr. Huynh gave you is the procedure to be used when the maker wants to modify his motion after it has been stated by the chair and is "the property of the assembly".   The citation I gave you is the procedure for withdrawing or modifying a motion before it has been stated by the chair and placed before the assembly.

Edited October 18, 2018 at 04:12 AM by Richard Brown
Added last paragraph

[Tom Coronite]

17 hours ago, Guest SAA said:

 May a motion maker move to amend his/her own motion?

It’s an excellent way, after one senses the direction the discussion is going, of making the motion more likely to be adopted.

[Guest SAA]

Thank you Mr Brown  but your response seems the same as that of Mr  Huynh . Both of those responses refer to  "modification "and not to the traditional  form used by a member to propose an amendment  . However ,appreciated none the less . 

 

It would seem that Mr Huynh may be  correct to refer to p. 3 RONR and therefore  this is not a subject that RONR has actually commented  on -specifically . But contextually,  p. 3 provides the only answer. 

 

Thanks a lot. 

[Joshua Katz]

I don't have a specific textual reference either, but it seems to me that any member can move to amend, which necessarily includes the maker. The maker loses rights only when specified, i.e. the right to speak against.

However, the maker will need to be careful if he chooses to speak in debate in favor of the amendment, since he can't speak against the original motion.

[Richard Brown]

42 minutes ago, Guest SAA said:

Thank you Mr Brown  but your response seems the same as that of Mr  Huynh . Both of those responses refer to  "modification "and not to the traditional  form used by a member to propose an amendment  . However ,appreciated none the less . 

Guest SSA, you are right that RONR does not directly address the issue of whether a member who made a motion may propose an amendment to his own motion in the traditional way of proposing amendments.  RONR seems to pretty clearly take the position that a member who wants to propose a change to his own motion should seek to MODIFY his motion rather than to amend it.  Or, if the motion has not  yet been stated by the chair, he may withdraw or modify it without permission.

I believe the reason we have not yet addressed your question with a definite yes or no answer is because of two things:  First, RONR does not address it but seems to say that the preferred method is for the member to seek to modify his motion rather than to amend it.  Second, a member is not permitted to speak against his own motion.  He may vote against it, but he may not speak against it.  By proposing an amendment, it can be argued that he is, in essence, speaking against his own motion.  RONR seems  to be getting around that thorny issue by saying that the original mover of a motion may seek to MODIFY it, avoiding a direct  statement or rule as to whether he may propose an amendment as any other member would do.  By proposing an amendment, he is saying, in essence, "I don't like my own motion and don't want it adopted in its current form". 

Here is the statement in RONR on page 393 regarding a member not speaking against his own motion:

"REFRAINING FROM SPEAKING AGAINST ONE'S OWN MOTION. In debate, the maker of a motion, while he can vote against it, is not allowed to speak against his own motion. He need not speak at all, but if he does he is obliged to take a favorable position. If he changes his mind while the motion he made is pending, he can, in effect, advise the assembly of this by asking permission to withdraw the motion (pp. 295–97)."

That statement, by saying that if the maker changes his mind while the motion is pending he should ask permission of the assembly to withdraw  the motion (or, as stated elsewhere, to modify it), seems to indicate that a motion to amend it by the original maker might not be in order.... or at least would not be the preferred method.  All of the statements I have found in RONR that appear to be pertinent suggest that the preferred method is for the maker to  seek to modify his motion rather than to amend it.  I agree that that sounds like a distinction without a difference, but it still seems to be what RONR says (or suggests).   Also, the process of the maker asking permission to modify his motion, rather than to amend it, seems  to me to be an easier route and one that the assembly is more likely to along with.

However, you have asked a specific question and would like a specific answer.  I'm going to go out on a limb and say that in my opinion nothing in RONR actually prohibits a member from proposing an amendment to his own motion and that he may therefore do so.   This is based in at least some part on the language on page 3 and on the premise that proposing motions and amendments (which are actually motions)  are rights of membership.   I don't see where RONR has specifically taken that right away from a member who wants to propose an amendment to his  own motion.

Stay tuned.  Others may well disagree.   

Edited October 18, 2018 at 05:45 PM by Richard Brown
Typographical correction

[Dan Honemann]

 

18 hours ago, Guest SAA said:

 May a motion maker move to amend his/her own motion .If so where is that stated in RONR ?

Thank - you 

Yes. See RONR, 11th ed., pages 295-298 (paying particular attention to p. 298, ll. 1-2).

[Guest SAA]

The  acknowledged Yoda of RONR  ( D. Honemann ) offers a simple  " yes " and p, 298 ll 1-2, and more ( 295-298). Mr. Brown ,a master of the Forum  ,also  asserts that the answer is  a " yes".

 And I gather that  Mr Brown  agrees that the specific    reference   to p. 298 from Mr. Honneman clearly   applies ?

 

But regardless ,any  in event, thank you both .

SAA

[Guest SAA]

Just to follow up on this , in particular, the comments of Mr. Brown , may a motion maker  offer a motion to amend  that is in order, but is nevertheless "hostile"  to his/her main motion ? Thanks .