Voting by Email for Slate of Officers

[Guest Kinja]

Today’s PTSA meeting did not have a quorum. This meeting was an “elections” meeting, but had not been announced as such. Very few executive board members came. No general members were present. 

The president stated that she would send an e-mail to only the executive board for voting this afternoon. We are to vote for the 2019-2020 slate of officers provided by our nominating committee (not present today).

Aside from improper notice of the “elections” meeting, is voting by email considered a proxy vote?

An excerpt from our PTSA bylaws is below:

“Article VI: Officers -Election...

Section 3b  Voting for officers shall be under the supervision of an elections committee.

Section 3c. The election shall be by ballot...[if one candidate]...may be by voice vote  

Section 3d. A simple majority vote shall be required for the election to prevail providing the quorum has been met  

Section 3e. Voting by proxy and/or absentee ballot is prohibited.”

[Joshua Katz]

2 minutes ago, Guest Kinja said:

Today’s PTSA meeting did not have a quorum.

Then it can't conduct business. Was it a board meeting or membership meeting?

2 minutes ago, Guest Kinja said:

This meeting was an “elections” meeting, but had not been announced as such.

Hmm? The excerpts provided do not say when the elections meeting is to be held. Do your bylaws say anything about that?

3 minutes ago, Guest Kinja said:

Very few executive board members came. No general members were present. 

One of these two things is irrelevant, but I don't know which until I know if it was a board or membership meeting.

3 minutes ago, Guest Kinja said:

The president stated that she would send an e-mail to only the executive board for voting this afternoon.

Two things: do your bylaws allow for email voting (by the board or otherwise?)? Also, who is supposed to elect your board? The excerpts provided do not say.

 

4 minutes ago, Guest Kinja said:

 Aside from improper notice of the “elections” meeting, is voting by email considered a proxy vote?

 

No, they are different things. They are alike only in that both are prohibited under RONR unless your rules say otherwise.

[Rob Elsman]

Voting by mail or email would be a prohibited form of absentee voting under 3e and RONR.

[Josh Martin]

17 minutes ago, Guest Kinja said:

Aside from improper notice of the “elections” meeting, is voting by email considered a proxy vote?

No, it is not a proxy vote. It is, however, a form of absentee ballot, which is also prohibited by RONR (and apparently by your bylaws).

A proxy vote is a method in which a person gives their “proxy” to another person, who then attends the meeting and votes on their behalf.

Edited April 8, 2019 at 11:46 PM by Josh Martin

[KingK]

24 minutes ago, Joshua Katz said:

Was it a board meeting or membership meeting?

It was a general meeting only attended by 13 (of 23) executive board members. 

Our bylaws state in Article VI: Election, Section 2. “Executive Committee Officers shall be elected by April 30 by the voting body of the association.”

[KingK]

24 minutes ago, reelsman said:

Voting by mail or email would be a prohibited form of absentee voting under 3e and RONR.

Thank you for this information!

[KingK]

14 minutes ago, Josh Martin said:

No, it is not a proxy vote. It is, however, a form of absentee ballot, which is also prohibited by RONR (and apparently by your bylaws).

A proxy vote is a method in which a person gives their “proxy” to another person, who then attends the meeting and votes on their behalf.

Thank you for clarifying what proxy means. That  explanation is very helpful. 

[KingK]

Well, here’s an update:

The PTSA President emailed me to say:

”Thank you for sharing your concerns about the electronic voting of the slate.   I have spoken with [———], the District 1 PTSA President and have been advised that it is okay to have the board vote electronically on the slate.”

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

Thank you all for your responses.

[Joshua Katz]

6 minutes ago, KingK said:

It was a general meeting only attended by 13 (of 23) executive board members. 

 

Okay, so a general meeting. Does your membership elect your board per your bylaws? If so, I can imagine no reason that, even if email ballots were allowed, only the board would be voting now.

 

7 minutes ago, KingK said:

 Our bylaws state in Article VI: Election, Section 2. “Executive Committee Officers shall be elected by April 30 by the voting body of the association.”

Well, there you go. I see no reason, then, why the board should be voting on this now. 

[KingK]

2 minutes ago, Joshua Katz said:

Okay, so a general meeting. Does your membership elect your board per your bylaws? If so, I can imagine no reason that, even if email ballots were allowed, only the board would be voting now.

 

Well, there you go. I see no reason, then, why the board should be voting on this now. 

My point(s) exactly. I asked that we wait until our next scheduled meeting to vote May 21. I, also, asked that all members be contacted via email to encourage attendance & a vote. 

My points have been defeated by the District 1 PTA president of our state, and I am surprised. However, I do not know what our local president’s email stated or asked. 

[Joshua Katz]

2 minutes ago, KingK said:

 My points have been defeated by the District 1 PTA president of our state, and I am surprised. However, I do not know what our local president’s email stated or asked. 

This is not a method of resolving parliamentary disputes, though. If they proceed, you can raise a point of order at the next meeting that the purported "election" was held by the wrong body and therefore is meaningless.

Edited April 9, 2019 at 12:15 AM by Joshua Katz
Typo

[Richard Brown]

1 hour ago, Joshua Katz said:

This is not a method of resolving parliamentary disputes, though. If they proceed, you can raise a point of order at the next meeting that the purported "election" was held by the wrong body and therefore is meaningless.

And be prepared to appeal from the ruling of the chair. You will need someone to second your appeal and then you need to be able to speak intelligently as to why the chair is wrong. It would help to have others lined up in advance to also speak in support of your position.

[KingK]

1 hour ago, Joshua Katz said:

This is not a method of resolving parliamentary disputes, though. If they proceed, you can raise a point of order at the next meeting that the purported "election" was held by the wrong body and therefore is meaningless.

Thank you for the suggestion. 

6 minutes ago, Richard Brown said:

And be prepared to appeal from the ruling of the chair. You will need someone to second your appeal and then you need to be able to speak intelligently as to why the chair is wrong. It would help to have others lined up in advance to also speak in support of your position.

Your guidance is a tremendous help. 

[Gary Novosielski]

2 hours ago, KingK said:

Well, here’s an update:

The PTSA President emailed me to say:

”Thank you for sharing your concerns about the electronic voting of the slate.   I have spoken with [———], the District 1 PTSA President and have been advised that it is okay to have the board vote electronically on the slate.”

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

Thank you all for your responses.

Well, as  a former PTSA officer, I'm quite certain the district president is also wrong. But that's beside the point.

Even if it were okay to have the board vote electronically, the point is that the board is not empowered to elect anyone, much less themselves. The vote must take place at a properly-called meeting of the general membership at which a quorum is present.  And notice of the meeting should state that elections will be held.

[KingK]

1 hour ago, Gary Novosielski said:

Well, as  a former PTSA officer, I'm quite certain the district president is also wrong. But that's beside the point.

Even if it were okay to have the board vote electronically, the point is that the board is not empowered to elect anyone, much less themselves. The vote must take place at a properly-called meeting of the general membership at which a quorum is present.  And notice of the meeting should state that elections will be held.

Certainly. All the more reason for me to become registered.

The email I sent in response to the “email voting” concern was succinct, but included all of the information you mentioned.

This isn’t even a matter of (mis)interpretation. I have only offered details that come directly from our local, state-conceived bylaws.

A state-level leader has ‘sided’ with our local president as though the methods were at all debatable. Such has been the case month-after-month.

Thank you for responding.