Guest Marco Posted September 17, 2019 at 04:48 AM Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 at 04:48 AM Can the chair in a small group make a motion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atul Kapur Posted September 17, 2019 at 06:15 AM Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 at 06:15 AM Pages 487-8 describe some of the changes that are allowed in a "small board", which is defined as "not more than about a dozen members present" (p. 487). One of these "small board rules" is that the chair may make a motion, participate in debate, and vote without leaving the chair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calion Posted December 11, 2019 at 03:21 AM Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 at 03:21 AM On 9/17/2019 at 1:15 AM, Atul Kapur said: Pages 487-8 describe some of the changes that are allowed in a "small board", which is defined as "not more than about a dozen members present" (p. 487). One of these "small board rules" is that the chair may make a motion, participate in debate, and vote without leaving the chair. This is incorrect. Those rules say nothing about making motions. So the chair may participate in debate and vote, but he may not make motions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hieu H. Huynh Posted December 11, 2019 at 03:37 AM Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 at 03:37 AM FAQ #1 may be of use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calion Posted December 11, 2019 at 03:58 AM Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 at 03:58 AM Er…that's confusing. "If the president is a member of the voting body, he or she has exactly the same rights and privileges as all other members have, including the right to make motions, to speak in debate, and to vote on all questions. So, in meetings of a small board (where there are not more than about a dozen board members present), and in meetings of a committee, the presiding officer may exercise these rights and privileges as fully as any other member." That seems to contradict pp. 487–488, which does not mention the chair making motions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atul Kapur Posted December 11, 2019 at 04:54 AM Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 at 04:54 AM I'm not sure how a statement in the FAQ can be said to contradict silence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted December 11, 2019 at 07:42 AM Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 at 07:42 AM 2 hours ago, Atul Kapur said: I'm not sure how a statement in the FAQ can be said to contradict silence. Expressio Unius Est Exclusio Alterius? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calion Posted December 11, 2019 at 08:16 AM Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 at 08:16 AM 28 minutes ago, Gary Novosielski said: Expressio Unius Est Exclusio Alterius? Exactly. Basic principle of law, and presumably parliamentary law as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zev Posted December 11, 2019 at 09:08 AM Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 at 09:08 AM 5 hours ago, Calion said: This is incorrect. Those rules say nothing about making motions. So the chair may participate in debate and vote, but he may not make motions. Oh? What about this: Quote Informal discussion may be initiated by the chairman himself, which in effect, enables the chairman to submit his own proposals without formally making a motion as described on pages 33-35 (although he has the right to make a motion if he wishes). RONR, 11th edition, page 488, 2nd footnote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calion Posted December 11, 2019 at 02:14 PM Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 at 02:14 PM 5 hours ago, Guest Zev said: Oh? What about this: RONR, 11th edition, page 488, 2nd footnote. Wups! Looks like I missed that. I would say that that makes the line that the footnote refers to poorly worded, but clearly Mr. Kapur was correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Elsman Posted December 11, 2019 at 05:05 PM Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 at 05:05 PM Insofar as the rules for small boards apply, the presiding officer, if a member of the body, may fully participate in the proceedings like any other member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted December 11, 2019 at 06:56 PM Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 at 06:56 PM @Calion, You will have a hard time convincing the members of this forum that the chairman of a small board using the small board rules cannot make motions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calion Posted December 11, 2019 at 08:20 PM Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 at 08:20 PM (edited) 1 hour ago, Richard Brown said: @Calion, You will have a hard time convincing the members of this forum that the chairman of a small board using the small board rules cannot make motions. Guest Zev has already shown me the error of my ways. Though providing a rule in a footnote that would at least very plausibly not be a rule if it wasn't for the footnote seems like a bad idea to me. Edited December 11, 2019 at 08:20 PM by Calion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted December 11, 2019 at 08:42 PM Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 at 08:42 PM 12 hours ago, Calion said: Exactly. Basic principle of law, and presumably parliamentary law as well. Yes, it is one of the principles of interpretation, but in this case I don't think it applies, as there are ample Expressios in RONR that the chair can participate fully just as any other member, under "small board" rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calion Posted December 11, 2019 at 08:45 PM Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 at 08:45 PM 2 minutes ago, Gary Novosielski said: Yes, it is one of the principles of interpretation, but in this case I don't think it applies, as there are ample Expressios in RONR that the chair can participate fully just as any other member, under "small board" rules. Like what, other than that one footnote (which I admit is controlling, but it seems odd to have controlling information in a footnote)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Turn5EL Posted January 24, 2020 at 01:42 AM Report Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 01:42 AM Can the Secretary or Treasurer make a motion to accept his/her report? Can he/she second the motion to accept his/her report? That is, can the Secretary make a motion to accept or second the minutes? Can the Treasurer make a motion to accept or second the financial report? Small board of 6 voting officials. Thank you for the guidance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted January 24, 2020 at 02:08 AM Report Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 02:08 AM (edited) First, for future reference, please post a new question as a new topic, even if an existing topic is similar. 26 minutes ago, Guest Turn5EL said: Can the Secretary or Treasurer make a motion to accept his/her report? Yes, but he should not do so for several reasons. First, and most importantly, no motion should be made by anyone to accept either report. If the report is for information only, it is read and placed on file. No motion is necessary or appropriate. In the case of the Treasurer especially, no action should be taken on an unaudited Treasurer’s report. If the report is important enough to be submitted for audit, such as an annual report, the report is submitted to the auditing committee (or to professional auditors, as the case may be) and it is the report of the auditors that is approved. For other reports, they are simply read and placed on file. If the report contains recommendations, a member other than the officer should make the motions to implement the recommendations. No action on the report itself is taken. The report itself is approved only if the intent is to approve every word of the report. This might be done if, for instance, the report is to be published in the society’s name. 26 minutes ago, Guest Turn5EL said: Can he/she second the motion to accept his/her report? No one should make or second a motion to accept the report. If motions are made to implement recommendations, I think the officer could second the motion. Indeed, the formality of a second could likely be bypassed altogether, as it could be presumed that the officer supports his own recommendations, and therefore there are at least two members who wish to hear the motion (the motion maker and the officer). Additionally, seconds are not required under the small board rules. 26 minutes ago, Guest Turn5EL said: That is, can the Secretary make a motion to accept or second the minutes? The minutes, although they are prepared by the Secretary, are not part of the Secretary’s report. The approval of the minutes is a separate item in the order of business. No motion or second to approve the minutes is necessary. After any corrections are handled, the chair declares the minutes approved. Additionally, seconds are not required under the small board rules. 26 minutes ago, Guest Turn5EL said: Can the Treasurer make a motion to accept or second the financial report? No one should make or second a motion to accept the Treasurer’s financial report. Such reports are either simply placed on file or submitted for audit. Additionally, seconds are not required under the small board rules. Edited January 24, 2020 at 02:10 AM by Josh Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Turn5EL Posted January 24, 2020 at 03:01 AM Report Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 03:01 AM All this time we have been making and seconding unnecessary motions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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