Two questions on roll call voting

[Alex Meed]

I have two questions on roll call voting:

1. RONR states that the chairman's name is only called if their vote will affect the result. Does this apply to assemblies using the small board rules, where the chair generally votes on all questions?

2. If the secretary is a voting member of the assembly, what procedure should the secretary use to cast a vote, since it is also their job to call the roll? (My idea: the secretary simply announces their vote when their name is reached, then carries on to the next member.)

[Chris Harrison]

1 hour ago, Alex M. said:

1. RONR states that the chairman's name is only called if their vote will affect the result. Does this apply to assemblies using the small board rules, where the chair generally votes on all questions?

I don't think RONR says for sure but given why the Chair's name is called last in larger assemblies I would not think it would be under Small Board rules.

Quote

2. If the secretary is a voting member of the assembly, what procedure should the secretary use to cast a vote, since it is also their job to call the roll? (My idea: the secretary simply announces their vote when their name is reached, then carries on to the next member.)

Works for me.. 

[Richard Brown]

5 hours ago, Alex M. said:

1. RONR states that the chairman's name is only called if their vote will affect the result. Does this apply to assemblies using the small board rules, where the chair generally votes on all questions?

Since in small assemblies using the small board rules the chair may vote on all questions along with the other members, there is no reason in a roll call vote to call the chair's name last unless, by custom or at the request of the chair, his name is called last.  I see nothing wrong with doing it either way.  RONR does not address that issue directly.  I will note, however, that taking a roll call vote in small assemblies using the small board rules is rather unusual unless the assembly is a public body or is somehow answerable to a constituency. State open meetings laws frequently provide that all votes of public bodies shall be on the record.

6 hours ago, Alex M. said:

2. If the secretary is a voting member of the assembly, what procedure should the secretary use to cast a vote, since it is also their job to call the roll? (My idea: the secretary simply announces their vote when their name is reached, then carries on to the next member.)

I agree with Chris Harrison.  That  works for me.  RONR does not address that point directly.

[Rob Elsman]

1) When the rules for small boards are used in a small assembly, the presiding officer's name should be called in its proper place in the alphabetical roll, since the presiding officer actively participates in the proceedings like other members.

2) The secretary may cast his vote when his name comes up in the alphabetical roll in the same way other members do:

a) the secretary calls his own name;

b) the secretary says "aye" or "nay";

c) the secretary repeats his name and vote

[Richard Brown]

3 minutes ago, Rob Elsman said:

1) When the rules for small boards are used in a small assembly, the presiding officer's name should be called in its proper place in the alphabetical roll, since the presiding officer actively participates in the proceedings like other members.

2) The secretary may cast his vote when his name comes up in the alphabetical roll in the same way other members do:

a) the secretary calls his own name;

b) the secretary says "aye" or "nay";

c) the secretary repeats his name and vote

Are you quoting from somewhere in RONR or are those answers your own opinions?  I don't think any of that is actually in RONR.

[Rob Elsman]

1) The only purpose for the presiding officer's name to be called last in the roll call is to implement the rule for large assemblies that the presiding officer only votes in the instance where his vote will affect the result. Otherwise, he has no special standing during a vote apart from other members, and the calling of the roll should reflect that.

2) There is nothing in the rules that indicates that the secretary should deviate from the ordinary procedure for calling the roll when he votes.

[Richard Brown]

8 minutes ago, Rob Elsman said:

b) the secretary says "aye" or "nay";

Actually, this is what RONR says on page 420 about the process of responding to a roll call vote:  "CHAIR: As many as are in favor of the adoption of the resolution will, as their names are called, answer aye [or "yes," or "yea"]; those opposed will answer no [or "nay"]. The Secretary [or "the Clerk"] will call the roll. "   Personally, I abhor the use of "yea" and "nay" because they sound too much alike, especially to people with a high frequency hearing loss who have a hard time distinguishing between the consonants.  Both words all too often sound like the letter "A". It's too easy to mistake a "yea" for a "nay" and vice versa. I watch and listen online to  LOTS of meetings and legislative committee hearings and it is sometimes impossible to make out which word the member used.  "Yes" and "No" are clear and unambiguous.

[Richard Brown]

3 minutes ago, Rob Elsman said:

1) The only purpose for the presiding officer's name to be called last in the roll call is to implement the rule for large assemblies that the presiding officer only votes in the instance where his vote will affect the result. Otherwise, he has no special standing during a vote apart from other members, and the calling of the roll should reflect that.

2) There is nothing in the rules that indicates that the secretary should deviate from the ordinary procedure for calling the roll when he votes.

I don't disagree with most of your answers, but you still haven't answered my question:  Are those statements contained in RONR or are those answers you opinion of how it should be done?   Your emphatic text gives the impression that it is coming straight out of RONR.  It is not.  

As I stated in my post above, your instruction of how to respond to a roll call vote is NOT what RONR says.  RONR seems to me to be saying that responding with "aye" and "no" are actually the preferred responses to a roll call vote, but that the other responses are also acceptable.  Again, here is the text:  "CHAIR: As many as are in favor of the adoption of the resolution will, as their names are called, answer aye [or "yes," or "yea"]; those opposed will answer no [or "nay"]. The Secretary [or "the Clerk"] will call the roll.

[Rob Elsman]

Members should follow the custom that the assembly uses. If the assembly uses "Yes" and "No", that's perfectly fine. I suspect, though, that the greater number of ordinary societies still use the customary "aye" and "nay" (or "no"). In those societies, the member should conform himself to the custom in use.

[Richard Brown]

Just now, Rob Elsman said:

Members should follow the custom that the assembly uses. If the assembly uses "Yes" and "No", that's perfectly fine. I suspect, though, that the greater number of ordinary societies still use the customary "aye" and "nay" (or "no"). In those societies, the member should conform himself to the custom in use.

And in my experience, the use of "yes" and "no" when responding to a roll call vote is the most often used custom.  Perhaps it's not in your neck of the woods.   It certainly provides the most easily understood response, especially when compared to "yea" and "nay".

[Rob Elsman]

My interpretation stems from the contrast of the presiding officer's role (pardon the use of the word) in a large assembly versus a small board or committee.

In a large assembly, the presiding officer is obligated to maintain the appearance of impartiality. The cited rule on p. 420 reflects this. In contrast, in small boards and committees (and other small assemblies that have adopted the rules for small boards), the presiding officer participates in the proceedings like all the other members. Hence, he may always vote; therefore, the rule on p. 420 does not apply.

[Dan Honemann]

5 minutes ago, Richard Brown said:

And in my experience, the use of "yes" and "no" when responding to a roll call vote is the most often used custom.  Perhaps it's not in your neck of the woods.   It certainly provides the most easily understood response, especially when compared to "yea" and "nay".

As best I can recall from my own experience, the use of the word "yes" seldom if ever happened, but at my age, there are lots of things I don't remember.  🙂

[Rob Elsman]

...but at my age, there are lots of things I don't remember.  🙂

I haven't found one. 🙂

[Richard Brown]

7 minutes ago, Daniel H. Honemann said:

but at my age, there are lots of things I don't remember.  🙂

Loss of memory, hearing and vision sure take a lot of the fun out of growing old!!!

[jstackpo]

12 minutes ago, Richard Brown said:

Loss of memory, hearing and vision sure take a lot of the fun out of growing old!!!

Au contraire...   It, memory loss in particular, opens up whole new vistas of things to be learned.  Just because you may have learned them once or twice before, doesn't spoil the pleasure of discovery.