Tomm Posted November 27, 2019 at 07:21 PM Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 at 07:21 PM Can someone please clarify the types of Bylaws that can be suspended under the term "in the nature of rules of order"! Seems to me that most all Bylaws determine the rules of order for the organization?!?!?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atul Kapur Posted November 27, 2019 at 07:30 PM Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 at 07:30 PM Rules that pertain to the orderly conduct of business within the context of a meeting. And, IIRC, the role of officers in that context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted November 27, 2019 at 07:37 PM Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 at 07:37 PM 9 minutes ago, Tomm said: Can someone please clarify the types of Bylaws that can be suspended under the term "in the nature of rules of order"! Seems to me that most all Bylaws determine the rules of order for the organization?!?!?!? You might look at pages 15-17 and pages 263-265 for some additional information. Also, if you search this forum, you fill find several threads discussing bylaws in the nature of rules of order. RONR does state that rules in the bylaws requiring a ballot vote cannot be suspended. In addition, rules in the bylaws setting out the qualifications for holding office cannot be suspended. Rules setting out notice requirements and rules protecting absentees cannot be suspended except in very rare situations, such as when all members are present and there are no absentees to protect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.S.M Posted November 27, 2019 at 10:10 PM Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 at 10:10 PM 2 hours ago, Atul Kapur said: Rules that pertain to the orderly conduct of business within the context of a meeting. And, IIRC, the role of officers in that context. Would this also apply to rules for the conduct of an election that are in the constitution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. J. Posted November 27, 2019 at 10:19 PM Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 at 10:19 PM 6 minutes ago, R.S.M said: Would this also apply to rules for the conduct of an election that are in the constitution? Possibly. 1. Some procedural rules are not in the nature of a rule of order. 2. Some procedural rules cannot be suspended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted November 27, 2019 at 10:20 PM Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 at 10:20 PM 7 minutes ago, R.S.M said: Would this also apply to rules for the conduct of an election that are in the constitution? It would apply to many of them, yes, but maybe not all. For example, a rule in the bylaws calling for the vote to be by secret ballot cannot be suspended. Neither can a rule requiring officers to be elected by majority vote, but a rule requiring a majority vote for other non-officer elections can be suspended. It gets rather technical and complicated, unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Meed Posted November 27, 2019 at 10:21 PM Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 at 10:21 PM Just now, Richard Brown said: Neither can a rule requiring officers to be elected by majority vote, but a rule requiring a majority vote for other non-officer elections can be suspended. On what basis do you draw that conclusion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.S.M Posted November 27, 2019 at 10:24 PM Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 at 10:24 PM 2 minutes ago, Richard Brown said: It would apply to many of them, yes, but maybe not all. For example, a rule in the bylaws calling for the vote to be by secret ballot cannot be suspended. Neither can a rule requiring officers to be elected by majority vote, but a rule requiring a majority vote for other non-officer elections can be suspended. It gets rather technical and complicated, unfortunately. If the rule reads that nominations from the floor are to be taken in November,and the election is in December. can the rule be suspended and reopen nominations in December? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. J. Posted November 27, 2019 at 10:26 PM Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 at 10:26 PM Just now, Alex M. said: On what basis do you draw that conclusion? I would draw it from p. 405 ll. 2-6. Something that could not be adopted as a rule of order could not be "in the nature of a rule of order." I would also not that such a rule did not appear until the 7th edition. General Robert was fine with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. J. Posted November 27, 2019 at 10:31 PM Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 at 10:31 PM 2 minutes ago, R.S.M said: If the rule reads that nominations from the floor are to be taken in November,and the election is in December. can the rule be suspended and reopen nominations in December? It would need to be suspended; the majority can reopen nominations by a majority vote. See pp. 288-9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.S.M Posted November 27, 2019 at 10:37 PM Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 at 10:37 PM 6 minutes ago, J. J. said: It would need to be suspended; the majority can reopen nominations by a majority vote. See pp. 288-9. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. J. Posted November 27, 2019 at 11:50 PM Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 at 11:50 PM 1 hour ago, R.S.M said: Thanks. I left a "not' out. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomm Posted November 28, 2019 at 12:36 AM Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 at 12:36 AM Now that makes it clear as mud! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted November 28, 2019 at 01:46 AM Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 at 01:46 AM 1 hour ago, J. J. said: I left a "not' out. Sorry. So why not edit the post and put the "not" in?? I thought we had gotten pretty good at fixing those irritating "not" holes!! 1 hour ago, Tomm said: Now that makes it clear as mud! What JJ meant to say is: " It would not need to be suspended; the majority can reopen nominations by a majority vote. See pp. 288-9." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zev Posted November 28, 2019 at 03:01 AM Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 at 03:01 AM 4 hours ago, J. J. said: I would also not that such a rule did not appear until the 7th edition. You lost me. What rule are you talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. J. Posted November 28, 2019 at 03:07 AM Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 at 03:07 AM 2 minutes ago, Guest Zev said: You lost me. What rule are you talking about? The General was fine with saying a special rule permit the election of officers by a plurality. The statement that electing officers by plurality was required to be in the bylaws first appeared in the 7th edition of RONR, which was published in 1970. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zev Posted November 28, 2019 at 03:28 AM Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 at 03:28 AM 14 minutes ago, J. J. said: The statement that electing officers by plurality was required to be in the bylaws first appeared in the 7th edition of RONR, which was published in 1970. Yes. I got it. Thank you for the clarification. However, note that the statement "A plurality vote never adopts a motion nor elects any one except by virtue of a special rule previously adopted." goes all the way back to the 3rd edition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. J. Posted November 28, 2019 at 03:51 AM Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 at 03:51 AM 2 minutes ago, Guest Zev said: Yes. I got it. Thank you for the clarification. However, note that the statement "A plurality vote never adopts a motion nor elects any one except by virtue of a special rule previously adopted." goes all the way back to the 3rd edition. The language in the 4th edition says, "In an assembly a plurality never elects except by virtue of a rule to that effect (p. 24, Introductions (definitions))." That does not say anything about a requiring the bylaws to specify a plurality vote for election of officers; it is clear that special rule could be adopted to permit the election of officer by plurality under the 4th edition. I think that did not occur until the 7th edition. I have no idea why this change was made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted December 1, 2019 at 03:26 AM Report Share Posted December 1, 2019 at 03:26 AM On 11/27/2019 at 5:24 PM, R.S.M said: If the rule reads that nominations from the floor are to be taken in November,and the election is in December. can the rule be suspended and reopen nominations in December? I doubt that would even require a suspension, unless the constitution had a specific rule against reopening them. Otherwise doing so would break no rule and require no suspension. Reopening nominations requires only a majority vote. Suspension of the rules, if necessary, requires a 2/3 vote. It would require a close reading of your constitution to be sure. But if all it says is what you have paraphrased above, there appears to be no prohibition on reopening nominations.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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