Definition of Past-President

[Gavin]

Good day all,

Does RONR have a definition for "Past-President"?  I haven't been successful at finding one.

As it does not state in our constitution is it automatically assumed the out going President automatically falls in to "Past-President" .  The current incumbent of Past-President was voted in as the previous President stepped down and was kicked out of the association so the Vice-President ran and was elected.  Now in the midst of an election that person wants to run against the new "Past-President" while he's already on the proxy slate running for a "Director At Large" position?

Thanks,

[Hieu H. Huynh]

29 minutes ago, Gavin said:

Does RONR have a definition for "Past-President"?

No.

[Gavin]

Thank you.

So is it then reasonable and acceptable to assume the role of Past-President is automatically assumed/filled by the outgoing President?  

I ask as it's not written in our constitution.

Thanks,

[Hieu H. Huynh]

That seems reasonable to me. Perhaps the bylaws could be amended.

[Gavin]

Oh ya, I agree.

We've come to realize there's some major issues with our Constitution, not proud to admit but we have to work within it.

I think when it was originally draft they thought everything else would be covered by the following statement "All questions of order not covered by the By-Laws shall be governed by the rules and regulations laid down by Roberts Rules Of Order"

Thanks

[Richard Brown]

1 hour ago, Gavin said:

Good day all,

Does RONR have a definition for "Past-President"?  I haven't been successful at finding one.

As it does not state in our constitution is it automatically assumed the out going President automatically falls in to "Past-President" .  The current incumbent of Past-President was voted in as the previous President stepped down and was kicked out of the association so the Vice-President ran and was elected.  Now in the midst of an election that person wants to run against the new "Past-President" while he's already on the proxy slate running for a "Director At Large" position?

Thanks,

Question:  Is the position  of "past president" actually an elected position in this organization? 

RONR does not define what a "past president is".  However, speaking personally, I think the vast majority of us (maybe all of us) who regularly contribute to this forum would say a past president is anyone who has ever been president, regardless of the reason why he or she is no longer president and regardless of how long ago he was president.  Therefore, you might well have several past presidents in your organization. 

The more common  situation  has to do with the definition of "Immediate Past President" (or IPP) because the bylaws of many organizations include him on their executive boards or assign some particular duty to him, but do not define who is and is not an immediate past president.  Again, if the bylaws are silent, and speaking personally, I think you will find that the vast majority of contributors to this forum will tell you that we consider the immediate past president to be the person who was most recently president, regardless of how long he was president or the reason why he is no longer president.  If a president resigns or is removed from office part way through his term, it is my opinion that he immediately and instantly becomes the immediate past president. If he served for only one day and resigns or is removed, he is still the immediate past president and entitled to whatever perks the organization affords to the immediate past president... even replacing the previous immediate past president on the board part way through his term. Ultimately, it is up to your organization to interpret its own bylaws.  We cannot do that for you.

If this is causing a problem... as it often does... you should consider either defining the term or just do away with the position.  The immediate past president (or some other past president) can be appointed to some important committee chairmanship if it is believed that it is in the best interest of the organization.  Most of the regular contributors to this forum believe it is best to just do away with the position.

[Gary Novosielski]

4 hours ago, Gavin said:

Thank you.

So is it then reasonable and acceptable to assume the role of Past-President is automatically assumed/filled by the outgoing President?  

I ask as it's not written in our constitution.

Thanks,

If there is no mention of Past President in your bylaws, then you have no such office.

If the office is created in the bylaws, but there is no specific rule that the outgoing president becomes past president, then the normal interpretation of English words applies, i.e., the office is assumed by the person most recently holding the office of president prior to the current incumbent.

Edited March 20, 2020 at 09:39 PM by Gary Novosielski

[Dan Honemann]

4 minutes ago, Gary Novosielski said:

If there is no mention of Past President in your bylaws, then you have no such office.

If the office is created in the bylaws, but there is no specific rule that the outgoing president becomes past president, then the normal interpretation of English words applies, i.e., the office is assumed by the person most recently holding the office of president prior to the current incumbent.

Why is it limited to the person most recently holding the office of president prior to the current incumbent?

[Gary Novosielski]

Just now, Daniel H. Honemann said:

Why is it limited to the person most recently holding the office of president prior to the current incumbent?

It would depend how may offices for Past Presidents the bylaws defines.  I'm assuming it only defines one.  But that could be just wishful thinking on my part.

[Gavin]

All helpful info, thank you.

Our constitution lists the following for our board of directors -

• President
• Past-President (once election is over, will put forth motion to include the word "Immediate" to avoid issues going forward)
• Vice-President
• Secretary/Treasurer
• Webmaster
• Director At Large #1
• Director At Large #2

Thanks

Edited March 21, 2020 at 04:47 PM by Gavin
more info

[Weldon Merritt]

7 hours ago, Gavin said:

All helpful info, thank you.

Our constitution lists the following for our board of directors -

• President
• Past-President (once election is over, will put forth motion to include the word "Immediate" to avoid issues going forward)
• Vice-President
• Secretary/Treasurer
• Webmaster
• Director At Large #1
• Director At Large #2

Thanks

Most of the regulars on this forum would agree that you would be better off simply eliminating the Past President position. One of our former regulars, John Stackpole (now deceased), had an excellet response to the notion of giving the Immediate Past President any official psotion. Here is what he had to say on the subject:

Quote

 

IPP is a Bad Idea:
And here's some reasons why the position is a bad idea:
In my personal view, setting up an "official" Immediate Past President (IPP) position is not a particularly good idea.  The most telling argument is the real possibility of a close and bitter race for the presidency, with the current president running (for a second term) against an "outsider".  And the outsider - the "reform candidate", perhaps - wins but is still stuck with the thorn of the IPP on the Board in a position to snipe at the new president.  And perhaps attempt to undermine the new president's plans.  Not to mention vote against them.

If the erstwhile president is a "good guy" the new president can (usually, depending on the bylaws) appoint him to a pre-existing committee - or even have him chair one, which might put him on the Board - as the new president sees fit.  That way the IPP's experience and value can be put to good use, when needed, without the danger of setting up an adversarial situation which would require a bylaw amendment to get out of.

Here's some more reasons

1) The President resigns and wants nothing to do with the organization.
 
2) The President simply doesn't run for election again because he's had enough, and never shows up at a board meeting.
 
3) The President is booted out of office for being incompetent, or for something more nefarious.
 
4) The President dies.
 
5) The President resigns and moves (wants to help but isn't around).

6) Even worse is the bylaw assignment of the IPP to chair a committee - such as nominating.  Then he dies/quits/leaves town, &c.  You are then stuck with an unfillable (by definition) vacancy.

Note that except for item 4, the IPP may well be part of the quorum requirement for meetings, even though he never shows up.
 
Our suggestion is to amend your bylaws to eliminate the position.

 

 

[Richard Brown]

@Weldon Merritt thank you for posting that! I know I have it saved somewhere, but did not know where to find it and did not have the time to look for it when I responded earlier. It is very good advice. I miss Dr. Stackpole. He is one of the people who I was most excited to meet at my first NAP convention. It was in San Antonio in 2003 or thereabouts. 

[Guest Mary]

Our past president has always assumed a voting position on our board, however, our bylaws do not state that the past president is a voting member. Our bylaw only gives the past president the role of chairing the nomination committee for the next year's elections. This person is a constant thorn in everything the new board does, hogs time in every board meeting and does not respect that someone else is now the elected president. So, my question is, can the past president simply be informed that, because our bylaws do not state that the past president is listed as part of the elected board, the past president will no longer be an official voting member of the board and their advice is at the call of the current president when asked for advice?

[Joshua Katz]

19 minutes ago, Guest Mary said:

Our past president has always assumed a voting position on our board, however, our bylaws do not state that the past president is a voting member.

Do you mean that the past president has been allowed to vote simply because he is the past president, despite the bylaws saying nothing of the sort, or that it's always been the case that past presidents take on some other board position? If the former, you need to stop doing that. 

20 minutes ago, Guest Mary said:

So, my question is, can the past president simply be informed that, because our bylaws do not state that the past president is listed as part of the elected board, the past president will no longer be an official voting member of the board and their advice is at the call of the current president when asked for advice?

Assuming this person is not a member of the board for some other reason, not only can this be done, it must. It's not that he is "no longer" an official voting member of the board, but that he never was. And every decision on which the past president cast a deciding vote, if not executed or remaining in force, is subject to a point of order. As for advice, well, you can't really stop someone from texting the president advice.

[Atul Kapur]

3 hours ago, Guest Mary said:

Our past president has always assumed a voting position on our board, however, our bylaws do not state that the past president is a voting member.

Not wanting to make any assumptions, what exactly do your bylaws say about the Immediate Past President?