Can a candidate serve as their own observer for an election tally?

[jggorman]

Can a candidate serve as their own observer for an election tally? We have authorized electronic voting and the tally/election report is opened by the Tellers, but not at a regular meeting of the full membership. Can a candidate his/herself attend this Teller meeting to observe the procedure of opening the electronic voting (website) and see the tally? The only possible relevant item in our bylaws is this: "The ballots shall be tabulated by the [omission of proper name] Tellers Committee and the results shall be forwarded to the Executive Committee who shall inform the membership."

[J. J.]

On 10/20/2021 at 9:12 AM, jggorman said:

Can a candidate serve as their own observer for an election tally? We have authorized electronic voting and the tally/election report is opened by the Tellers, but not at a regular meeting of the full membership. Can a candidate his/herself attend this Teller meeting to observe the procedure of opening the electronic voting (website) and see the tally? The only possible relevant item in our bylaws is this: "The ballots shall be tabulated by the [omission of proper name] Tellers Committee and the results shall be forwarded to the Executive Committee who shall inform the membership."

There is no rule in RONR against it.  At times votes are counted in the presence of the entire assembly. 

[George Mervosh]

On 10/20/2021 at 9:19 AM, J. J. said:

There is no rule in RONR against it.  At times votes are counted in the presence of the entire assembly. 

Do you think the tellers committee can disallow it on their own accord?  I'm thinking they can but I may be wrong.

[jggorman]

GM: No, I don't think it is appropriate for Tellers to create arbitrary rules. I don't think they have the authority for that.

[Atul Kapur]

On 10/20/2021 at 9:25 AM, George Mervosh said:

Do you think the tellers committee can disallow it on their own accord?  I'm thinking they can but I may be wrong.

On what grounds? If candidates are allowed to appoint an observer, and this is a privilege granted to every candidate, on what grounds could the tellers committee decide that the candidate cannot choose themself as the observer?

[George Mervosh]

On 10/20/2021 at 9:30 AM, jggorman said:

GM: No, I don't think it is appropriate for Tellers to create arbitrary rules. I don't think they have the authority for that.

Committees can exclude non -members, no doubt (50:27).  I'm not sure the tellers are a committee but they do in fact seem like one.

Edited October 20, 2021 at 01:33 PM by George Mervosh

[J. J.]

On 10/20/2021 at 9:25 AM, George Mervosh said:

Do you think the tellers committee can disallow it on their own accord?  I'm thinking they can but I may be wrong.

If they are a committee and there is no instruction or rule, yes.  They could even go into executive session.

[George Mervosh]

On 10/20/2021 at 9:36 AM, J. J. said:

If they are a committee and there is no instruction or rule, yes.  They could even go into executive session.

They seem like a very special, special committee and I agree.

[jggorman]

Teller's would be violating 46:31 Ballot Election if they made ballot counting a private meeting and did not allow observers, as previously mentioned the counting can be done in front of the assembly and there is this:

"When these reports are completed for all offices, the chairman of tellers, after reading them to the assembly, submits them to the chair, who, as he reads each one of them again, declares the result for that office."

Edited October 20, 2021 at 01:56 PM by jggorman

[J. J.]

On 10/20/2021 at 9:55 AM, jggorman said:

Teller's would be violating 46:31 Ballot Election if they made ballot counting a private meeting and did not allow observers, as previously mentioned the counting can be done in front of the assembly and there is this:

"When these reports are completed for all offices, the chairman of tellers, after reading them to the assembly, submits them to the chair, who, as he reads each one of them again, declares the result for that office."

46:31 does not prohibit the tellers from meeting in private.  The assembly may. 

[Atul Kapur]

I took @jggorman's question as being: "Assuming that observers are permitted to observe, can a candidate serve as their own observer for an election tally?" 

If that is correct, then I don't see how the tellers could decide that a candidate could not be their own observer.

 

[Guest jggorman]

I would say the question restated as "Does RONR require that candidates be allowed to serve as their own observer for the ballot counting/reporting?" I am trying to find out if we must allow observers and can they be the candidates themselves at the meeting of the Tellers when they open the electronic system for the election and form the report (which is not a full membership meeting for logistical reasons).

Because if we are allowing any observers and this is either in conflict to RONR or not required, I need to know.

[Dan Honemann]

On 10/20/2021 at 1:37 PM, Guest jggorman said:

I would say the question restated as "Does RONR require that candidates be allowed to serve as their own observer for the ballot counting/reporting?"

The answer is "no".

[Richard Brown]

I think it is clear, as Mr. Honemann pointed out, that RONR does not require that observers be permitted to attend or observe the opening or counting of the ballots. Unless this organization has some rule which does permit it, I believe the tellers committee has the right to exclude the presence of observers. I have not yet seen anything indicating this organization has a rule requiring it.  If such observers are permitted by virtue of a customized rule, it seems to me that a candidate himself could be his own observer unless the rule prohibits it. 

[jggorman]

Thanks to all!