new business

[Guest Albany]

do new items of new business not listed on the agenda need to be approved by members before they can be discussed at a meeting?

[J. J.]

On 2/11/2022 at 8:37 AM, Guest Albany said:

do new items of new business not listed on the agenda need to be approved by members before they can be discussed at a meeting?

It depends.

First, if you are meeting as frequently as quarterly, an agenda is not used.

Second, if you do use an agenda, it depends what it says. 

It is proper to adopt an agenda that has a heading "New Business."  In that case, items of new business that are otherwise in order could be brought up.

It is also proper to adopt an agenda that would just list the motions to be considered.  In that case, only those motion could be considered.   However, when being adopted, the agenda can be amended when pending, by a majority vote.  After adoption, i.e. at some point after it is not pending, the agenda may be amended by the motion Amend Something Previously Adopted.  That would require a 2/3 vote or a majority of the entire membership. 

So, if you have an agenda, and if it does provide for new business, the motion would have to be added.

[Shmuel Gerber]

On 2/11/2022 at 9:22 AM, J. J. said:

if you have an agenda, and if it does provide for new business, the motion would have to be added.

I think you meant "if it does not provide for new business".

But anyway, adoption of an agenda does not prevent a member from making motions on additional topics after the agenda has been completed and before the meeting is adjourned.

[J. J.]

On 2/11/2022 at 11:31 AM, Shmuel Gerber said:

I think you meant "if it does not provide for new business".

But anyway, adoption of an agenda does not prevent a member from making motions on additional topics after the agenda has been completed and before the meeting is adjourned.

I do mean "not provide." 

However, if the assembly has agreed to consider only certain motions, by adopting an agenda, why could additional motions be considered (without amending the agenda).

 

[Rob Elsman]

I agree with Mr. Gerber.  Items of business on an adopted agenda are just orders of the day.  Once these items have been dealt with, the assembly reverts to the established order of business, unless the adopted agenda contains an order to immediately adjourn.

[J. J.]

On 2/11/2022 at 10:44 PM, Rob Elsman said:

I agree with Mr. Gerber.  Items of business on an adopted agenda are just orders of the day.  Once these items have been dealt with, the assembly reverts to the established order of business, unless the adopted agenda contains an order to immediately adjourn.

Why would the standard order of business come into play?  The agenda would be used by assemblies meeting less often than quarterly.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 2/11/2022 at 11:35 PM, J. J. said:

Why would the standard order of business come into play?  The agenda would be used by assemblies meeting less often than quarterly.

But we're talking about what happens after the agenda is exhausted.  At that point, a member may be recognized and may make an original main motion.   There is no need to invoke the standard order of business, since the completed agenda is presumed to have dealt with all the business that was contemplated, and although a motion to Adjourn would be in order at this point, so would a motion to paint the clubhouse red.

[Dan Honemann]

On 2/11/2022 at 11:31 AM, Shmuel Gerber said:

But anyway, adoption of an agenda does not prevent a member from making motions on additional topics after the agenda has been completed and before the meeting is adjourned.

I think we need some more facts.

[J. J.]

On 2/11/2022 at 11:53 PM, Gary Novosielski said:

But we're talking about what happens after the agenda is exhausted.  At that point, a member may be recognized and may make an original main motion.   There is no need to invoke the standard order of business, since the completed agenda is presumed to have dealt with all the business that was contemplated, and although a motion to Adjourn would be in order at this point, so would a motion to paint the clubhouse red.

Where would you get that in RONR?  

[Rob Elsman]

See RONR (12th ed.) 41:58.  Adoption of an agenda by majority vote must not conflict with, or interfere with, the established order of business.  If it is desired to set aside the established order of business to any extent, the main motion to adopt the agenda requires a two-thirds vote, since it has the effect of suspending the rules.  RONR (12th ed.) 10:8(7)(b).

[Dan Honemann]

On 2/12/2022 at 3:32 PM, Rob Elsman said:

See RONR (12th ed.) 41:58.  Adoption of an agenda by majority vote must not conflict with, or interfere with, the established order of business.  If it is desired to set aside the established order of business to any extent, the main motion to adopt the agenda requires a two-thirds vote, since it has the effect of suspending the rules.  RONR (12th ed.) 10:8(7)(b).

The OP has not told us that there is an established order of business, and if there is, how it was established.

[Richard Brown]

It’s also worth noting that an agenda adopted without objection does meet the two thirds vote requirement. It has been my experience that most agendas are adopted by unanimous consent  without objection

[Dan Honemann]

On 2/12/2022 at 10:47 PM, Richard Brown said:

It’s also worth noting that an agenda adopted without objection does meet the two thirds vote requirement. It has been my experience that most agendas are adopted by unanimous consent  without objection

The OP has not told us that the agenda was adopted by unanimous consent. 

[Gary Novosielski]

On 2/12/2022 at 9:43 AM, J. J. said:

Where would you get that in RONR?  

Well, absent some higher rule, if a member is recognized, the member may make a motion.  I'm sure that's in there.

What's not in there is a rule that when the agenda is complete, the assembly must adjourn.

[J. J.]

On 2/13/2022 at 10:06 AM, Gary Novosielski said:

Well, absent some higher rule, if a member is recognized, the member may make a motion.  I'm sure that's in there.

What's not in there is a rule that when the agenda is complete, the assembly must adjourn.

No on the first; a motion could be be legitimately ruled out of order it it was not in order at the time it is made.  I would see that as being the issue in the case where an agenda was adopted and no "New Business" heading was included.  

41:66-67 does not say that on adjournment. 

[Atul Kapur]

On 2/11/2022 at 11:53 PM, Gary Novosielski said:

But we're talking about what happens after the agenda is exhausted.  At that point, a member may be recognized and may make an original main motion.

 

On 2/13/2022 at 10:22 AM, J. J. said:

41:66-67 does not say that on adjournment.

We are not told whether the agenda includes adjournment as the (presumably) last item or does not. If so, 41:66-67 would apply. If not, I'm inclined to agree with Mr. Novosielski, based on previous discussions here.

I believe that this is at least one of the items Mr. Honemann was referring to when he said 

On 2/12/2022 at 7:44 AM, Dan Honemann said:

I think we need some more facts.

 

[Richard Brown]

On 2/12/2022 at 9:47 PM, Richard Brown said:

It’s also worth noting that an agenda adopted without objection does meet the two thirds vote requirement. It has been my experience that most agendas are adopted by unanimous consent  without objection

 

On 2/13/2022 at 5:38 AM, Dan Honemann said:

The OP has not told us that the agenda was adopted by unanimous consent. 

I know that. I was responding to this comment by Mr. Elsman:

On 2/12/2022 at 2:32 PM, Rob Elsman said:

See RONR (12th ed.) 41:58.  Adoption of an agenda by majority vote must not conflict with, or interfere with, the established order of business.  If it is desired to set aside the established order of business to any extent, the main motion to adopt the agenda requires a two-thirds vote, since it has the effect of suspending the rules.  RONR (12th ed.) 10:8(7)(b).

I was just pointing out that most agendas are adopted by unanimous consent without objection and that such an adoption would satisfy the 2/3 vote requirement to suspend or set aside the standard order of business to which he referred. 

[Rob Elsman]

I think Mr. Brown and I are using very probable assumptions.  As Mr. Honemann is trying his best to point out, there are other paths that could apply if we had more facts at our disposal.