Who can call for a motion

[Guest Cheryl]

Can the group's President or executive board members make a motion to remove an action previously voted on and adopted by the general membership?

 

Thanks you for your time.

[Joshua Katz]

Make a motion at what body? Unless the bylaws provide otherwise, only the general membership can rescind its own decisions, so they'd need to make the motion there.

[Rob Elsman]

See RONR Off. Interp. 2006-12 at the official Robert's Rules website.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 6/1/2022 at 11:35 AM, Guest Cheryl said:

Can the group's President or executive board members make a motion to remove an action previously voted on and adopted by the general membership?

If the rules in RONR apply, the membership is the superior body and the board is the inferior body.  

If a decision is voted on by the membership, the board cannot take any action to overturn that decision.  Furthermore if the board takes an action that the membership disagrees with, the membership can Rescind or Amend it.  And the membership can give instructions to the board that the board is obliged to obey.

Edited June 1, 2022 at 08:53 PM by Gary Novosielski

[Guest Sincere Gratitude]

Thank you, everyone, for clarification and direction on this topic.  This group is awesome 

[mcox]

I'm in a dog club where the board made a decision to move a  show to Location B that a number of members disagree with.  They want the show to remain in Location A. (BTW, there on no other options other than A & B, so it will be one or the other).

 These members appropriately called a Special Meeting per our bylaws, where they will make a motion to Rescind this decision.  (This is what the bylaws specifically state about the BOD:  "SECTION 1.  Board of Directors.  General management of the Club’s affairs shall be entrusted to the Board of Directors.  The Board shall be comprised of eleven persons, namely the President, Vice-President, Corresponding Secretary, Recording Secretary, Treasurer, and six other persons, all of whom shall be members in good standing.  The Officers shall be elected for one-year terms at the Club’s Annual Meeting, and shall serve until their successors are elected.  The six other Directors shall serve two-year terms with three being elected at each annual election.  Directors shall not serve more than two consecutive terms."  General Management is "entrusted" sounds to me that the BOD does not have the highest authority, but the membership is the highest authority, correct?) 

 

I've gotten myself a little confused about the procedure.  What motion is made and debated if ultimately, we want the body to vote on one or the other, Location A or Location B? 

Is the motion made and seconded to rescind, followed by debate of the merits of both venues, then voted on?  If so, and if carried, would that "imply" that Location A is adopted?  Or would we need a different process to first rescind the decision, then vote on Location A or B?  

Separate question: If the BOD rescinds the decision themselves (because they think its a gesture of good faith toward the membership or something like that) in a Special Board Meeting Prior to the Special Membership Meeting called, then how would we proceed?  How would a member word a motion, followed by debate of the merits of both Locations and then have people cast a vote accordingly? It seems like the BOD should not rescind their vote themselves, because theoretically it could stand. 

This might be super simple, but I've gotten myself a little confused about what rescinding the motion means and how to proceed to make a decision.    

Thanks so much for engaging in the dialogue about this.

Mcox

 

 

[George Mervosh]

On 6/7/2022 at 12:40 PM, mcox said:

I'm in a dog club where the board made a decision to move a  show to Location B that a number of members disagree with.  They want the show to remain in Location A. (BTW, there on no other options other than A & B, so it will be one or the other).

Let's start here.  Did the board or the membership establish Location A as the original location for this show?

[Atul Kapur]

On 6/7/2022 at 3:19 PM, George Mervosh said:

Let's start here.  Did the board or the membership establish Location A as the original location for this show?

Let's expand on this a bit. Who, but also how was Location A established as the current location? Was there a motion that determined it or was it just that it's "always been there" (which may mean the motion that determined it was made a long, long time ago)?

Also, is the decision made on a yearly basis or is it determined and then stays that way until it is changed?

[mcox]

I'm not sure who or how Location A was originally established for the show.  It was established in 2006, prior to my membership.  I believe that since its inception, the board has negotiated and signed the contract with Location A (a hotel), so from that perspective, the decision is made on a yearly basis with a signed contract with the hotel.   But, there wasn't much to talk about because the membership was quite happy with the location for a long time, so it has been assumed we'd be there.  There was no "membership involvement" in this decision up until now. 

Probably 4 or 5 years ago, the location started to need upgrades that were promised by the owners and not delivered.  The board looked at finding another site around 2018 or 2019, and we tried to move to the site we were at prior to 2006 (people were familiar with it, so not an issue), but the contract fell through and covid happened, thus leaving us with the  default of Location A for 2021 and 2022.  

Some board members were again motivated to seek out a new option, and did so without making a lot of fuss because involving too many people slows processes down. Informally, several venues were explored and we found one that meets our needs, but this option is VERY DIFFERENT and much further away that Location A.  It has many more implications for the club as a whole.  It was presented to the board and passed with a vote of 7/9.  (board of 11, 1 absent, I don't vote as the president). It was perceived as subversive and trying to slip something by the membership. Thus the call for a special meeting.  

[George Mervosh]

I asked about who made the initial decision to have it at location A because:

“In any event, no action of the board can alter or conflict with any decision made by the assembly of the society, and any such action of the board is null and void (see 56:41 and 23:9).”  RONR (12^th ed.), 49:7.

It may be that some member or members do remember how the initial decision is made. If they feel it was made by the membership a motion to declare the board’s action null and void may be adopted by the membership by a majority vote at a regular or properly called meeting.  RONR (12^th ed.), 23:9.

If that doesn’t happen and the board doesn’t rescind the motion they adopted, the membership can move to rescind the board’s adopted motion to move to location B at a regular or properly called meeting of the membership.

“Except in matters placed by the bylaws exclusively under the control of the board, the society's assembly can give the board instructions which it must carry out, and can rescind or amend any action of the board if it is not too late (see 35)."  RONR (12^th ed.), 49:7.

Since your group plans on having a special meeting regarding this matter be quite careful on how the call for the meeting is worded.  See RONR (12^th ed.), 9:13-16.

[mcox]

OK, this is helpful.  I do believe we are at "rescinding the board's adopted motion . . . " either by the board or by the membership.  I need help with the wording of these motions:  The original motion made in the board meeting was, "I move that we accept the proposal to move the 2023 Specialty Show to Location B under Option A."  

The motion to rescind at the membership meeting would be, "I move to rescind the decision adopted by the BOD on 5/25/22 to move the 2023 Specialty Show to Location B under Option A."  Then a second, then debate of the merits/demerits of Location B.  In the end, the vote is Yes or No to rescind this decision.  If the decision is rescinded,  it is implied that we will stay at Location A because we have no other option, or do we need to formally vote on that with a separate motion? 

Lets say that the BOD rescinds their decision prior to this group meeting, so we are starting from scratch at the special meeting.  Can a motion be worded as follows: 

"I move that the assembly debate the merits of both Location A and Location B followed by a vote of the membership to determine where the 2023 Specialty will be held." 

Then the vote would not be yes or no, but "Of which option are you in favor?  Location A.  or Location B."  Is this OK? 

This all occurs on zoom by a poll or google form (yes we can do virtual meetings per our state law), so the vote is "secret."  Abstentions are not counted, right?  So there is no need to put "Abstain" on the ballot with the other 2 options, correct?  

Thanks for engaging with me, I just want to be prepared and do my best to get this right.  

[Gary Novosielski]

On 6/8/2022 at 12:52 PM, mcox said:

OK, this is helpful.  I do believe we are at "rescinding the board's adopted motion . . . " either by the board or by the membership.  I need help with the wording of these motions:  The original motion made in the board meeting was, "I move that we accept the proposal to move the 2023 Specialty Show to Location B under Option A."  

The motion to rescind at the membership meeting would be, "I move to rescind the decision adopted by the BOD on 5/25/22 to move the 2023 Specialty Show to Location B under Option A."  Then a second, then debate of the merits/demerits of Location B.  In the end, the vote is Yes or No to rescind this decision.  If the decision is rescinded,  it is implied that we will stay at Location A because we have no other option, or do we need to formally vote on that with a separate motion? 

Lets say that the BOD rescinds their decision prior to this group meeting, so we are starting from scratch at the special meeting.  Can a motion be worded as follows: 

"I move that the assembly debate the merits of both Location A and Location B followed by a vote of the membership to determine where the 2023 Specialty will be held." 

Then the vote would not be yes or no, but "Of which option are you in favor?  Location A.  or Location B."  Is this OK? 

This all occurs on zoom by a poll or google form (yes we can do virtual meetings per our state law), so the vote is "secret."  Abstentions are not counted, right?  So there is no need to put "Abstain" on the ballot with the other 2 options, correct?  

Thanks for engaging with me, I just want to be prepared and do my best to get this right.  

Whatever motion you make, it has to be one that can be answered Yes or No.  From your description of the Board's motion, it was to move from A to B.  That appears to suggest that if the Board had made no motion, the event would have happened at location A, without the need for further action.  Is that true?  Or would it still need to do something to accept a proposal for A.  This is unclear because the motion says to move from A, but if A had not already been decided upon, the Board's motion would simply be to hold an event at location B.  How can you move it from A if it was never approved at A.

If it was already approved at A first, then all that is needed is to rescind the Board's motion.  If that would return the location to A, then no further action is needed.  If that would simply fail to hold the event, then yes, another motion would be needed to hold it at A.   It would make no sense to "debate the merits" since if the motion to Rescind passes, it's clear the merits have already been well considered.

If the Board rescinds their motion before the Membership meeting, then as discussed above, it might be that nothing further is required.  However, if that leaves you without an event, a motion at the Membership meeting to hold an event at A would be required.  Again, you don't move two opposite things in one motion.  Move to hold it at A, and if anyone feels strongly that B is better, they will move to Amend it to B.  Presumably, if sentiment is on your side, that amendment will fail, and the question to be voted on is whether to hold it at A, or not.

By the way, I have no clue what the language "Hold it at B under option A" means, if anything.  It was my understanding that A was a location, not an option.

[mcox]

OK,  I see, thank you very much. YES or NO. (Robert's 101!)  

What you're pointing out got past me:  The board had not actually ever approved to hold the specialty at location A.  But it was ASSUMED by everyone, and indeed, without any motion, the show would happen at location A.   To make things proper, we will, in fact, need to have a separate motion to hold the show at A.  

I'll re-read your comment a few times just to make sure I understand.  In the meantime, I really appreciate the time you've taken to help me!  

[Atul Kapur]

On 6/7/2022 at 5:26 PM, mcox said:

I'm not sure who or how Location A was originally established for the show.  It was established in 2006, prior to my membership

There should be records from then that you can consult.

The exact wording of that motion will likely help determine whether the board acted within its authority, and assist in the plan moving forward.

[Guest Mcox]

Thank you, Atul. I’ll find that.