Recommendations of Committee

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

Something has confused me though I realize the scenario in RONR is slightly different, thus some clarity is requested.  I am looking at 51:48(c) where it says that by unanimous consent, the assembly can allow the introduction of a motion to adopt all recommendations in the report, without consideration the amendments separately.  

Now these seems to be referring to an ad hoc committee that had a specific question or questions referred to it, but I am trying to understand the applicability in the case of a standing committee - in my context - a Platform Committee of a political party.  Generally these committees have multiple proposals to modify various planks of an existing platform.  These proposals are separate and are separate subject matters within the one documents, the platform.  Assuming there are no other rules the organization has addressing this question, does it require unanimous consent to just take an in gross vote on all of the proposals as one vote?

[Rob Elsman]

Are we dealing with the committee's vote to adopt its report, or are we dealing with the convention's adoption of the platform?

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

The present platform is the basis for all future platforms, so the platform is not re-adopted every convention.  Only amendments to the existing platform are considered.  It is very similar to bylaws amendments of an existing society.

[Richard Brown]

On 1/9/2023 at 7:30 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos said:

Something has confused me though I realize the scenario in RONR is slightly different, thus some clarity is requested.  I am looking at 51:48(c) where it says that by unanimous consent, the assembly can allow the introduction of a motion to adopt all recommendations in the report, without consideration the amendments separately.  

Now these seems to be referring to an ad hoc committee that had a specific question or questions referred to it, but I am trying to understand the applicability in the case of a standing committee - in my context - a Platform Committee of a political party.  Generally these committees have multiple proposals to modify various planks of an existing platform.  These proposals are separate and are separate subject matters within the one documents, the platform.  Assuming there are no other rules the organization has addressing this question, does it require unanimous consent to just take an in gross vote on all of the proposals as one vote?

First, this provision applies to standing committees as well as to special committees, so using this procedure is also permissible when the report is from a standing committee. There is nothing in 51:48 that limits its applicability to special committees.

Since only one member could object to taking up the recommendations in gross per the language of 51:48, it would require unanimous consent of the assembly (not of the committee) to take up the recommendations in gross as one vote.

 

Edited January 9, 2023 at 03:15 PM by Richard Brown
Added last sentence to first paragraph and made typographical correction

[Rob Elsman]

Can you answer my question directly?

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

On 1/9/2023 at 8:10 AM, Rob Elsman said:

Can you answer my question directly?

I thought I did.  Perhaps you can rephrase it?

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

On 1/9/2023 at 8:09 AM, Richard Brown said:

First, this provision applies to standing committees as well as to special committees, so using this procedure is also permissible when the report is from a standing committee.

since only one member could object to taking up the recommendations in gross per the language of 51:48, it would require unanimous consent of the assembly (not of the committee) to take up the recommendations in gross as one vote.

 

So the answer is "yes" it requires unanimous consent in the circumstance I am describing, which you are more than familiar with... I think Rob may think there is some twist or trick in there. There isn't.  There is no present circumstance going on, this is a matter of curiousity that arose when I was doing a periodic review of the text.

[Rob Elsman]

Is it clause A or clause B?

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

It is not A, and B makes no sense in this circumstance in light of the explanation I gave.  The convention does not adopt a "platform."  

[Rob Elsman]

On 1/9/2023 at 9:10 AM, Rob Elsman said:

Can you answer my question directly?

I guess not.

[Rob Elsman]

I guess the best I can do is recommend a thorough reading of RONR (12th Ed.) §51 on committee reports and §§58, 59 on conventions.

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

I have no idea why you are being belittling or rude, but have a good day.  I really don't need this today.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 1/9/2023 at 10:14 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos said:

It is not A, and B makes no sense in this circumstance in light of the explanation I gave.  The convention does not adopt a "platform."  

Really. That's typically one of the main functions of a convention (with notable exceptions).

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

On 1/9/2023 at 9:16 AM, Gary Novosielski said:

Really. That's typically one of the main functions of a convention (with notable exceptions).

They adopt amendments to the current platform in the same way they adopt amendments to bylaws.  Very very analogous.  So a few planks may be amended or a new one added or one deleted but it is not an entirely new platform.  No vote is taken on the "platform." Votes are only taken at convention on amendments to the existing platform.

Edited January 9, 2023 at 04:19 PM by Caryn Ann Harlos

[Rob Elsman]

This is not what is intended in RONR (12th ed.) 59:76.

Edited January 9, 2023 at 04:59 PM by Rob Elsman

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

It is what our Bylaws and Convention Rules say (and the Bylaws and rules of the constituent units).    I know we avoid referring to names here, but this is not some completely obscure group so it might be useful for members to know here that at least one of the political players in the United States does not adopt a new platform, but only amends the current one.  (in theory of course all of the planks can be deleted and new one adopted, but that has only happened once and through a very specific convention rule)

Edited January 9, 2023 at 05:08 PM by Caryn Ann Harlos

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

Richard Brown is probably the best equipped to answer as he is familiar with the organization, and I thank him for his response.

[J. J.]

I will note that a special rule could be adopted to permit something other than unanimous consent to adopt.  At a convention, it could be done by a majority of the entire membership. 

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

Interesting, so let me give a potential scenario. Platform Committee report comes up.  Many people just want to adopt all the proposals in gross.  Do they specifically have to adopt a special rule of order, or if a vote is taken on whether or not to consider in gross and more than a majority of the entire membership vote yes, is that sufficient?  (this is a scenario I am positive has played out numerous times in those assemblies in which there is not a convention rule that each proposal has to be considered separately, which many do have)

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

I guess my confusion is - is this a suspendable rule in RONR?  Because then a 2/3 vote could overcome something which requires unaminous consent.

[Richard Brown]

On 1/9/2023 at 12:15 PM, J. J. said:

I will note that a special rule could be adopted to permit something other than unanimous consent to adopt.  At a convention, it could be done by a majority of the entire membership. 

I agree.

On 1/9/2023 at 12:26 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos said:

I guess my confusion is - is this a suspendable rule in RONR?  Because then a 2/3 vote could overcome something which reqSuires unaminous consent.

Since the rule protects a minority as small as one member, I believe it would require unanimous consent to suspend the rule.  However, as JJ stated above, a special convention rule of order could be adopted to permit a vote of less than unanimous consent to consider the items in gross.

[Richard Brown]

On 1/9/2023 at 12:25 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos said:

Interesting, so let me give a potential scenario. Platform Committee report comes up.  Many people just want to adopt all the proposals in gross.  Do they specifically have to adopt a special rule of order, or if a vote is taken on whether or not to consider in gross and more than a majority of the entire membership vote yes, is that sufficient? 

If I am understanding your question correctly (and I'm not sure I am), without a special rule permitting less than a unanimous vote, it would require unanimous consent  to consider all of the proposals in gross.  Whatever vote the bylaws and convention rules require for the adoption of the proposals would then apply.  I'm not looking at the bylaws or special rules, but I believe there are different vote thresholds for adoption of different types of changes to the platform.  If that is the case, then the issue arises of what vote is required for adoption if different proposals have different vote thresholds.  My opinion is that the highest vote threshold would be required unless there is a bylaw provision or perhaps a special rule permitting a lower vote threshold.

Edited January 9, 2023 at 06:50 PM by Richard Brown
Added the word "arises" in the next to last sentence

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

I think you are understanding me, and I got the answer.  (Yes the national organization has different thresholds for amending and deletion, many of the subordinate units do not).

[Gary Novosielski]

@Caryn Ann Harlos: 

I'm confused as to why a special rule of order would be required.  If the platform committee reports a series of amendments, a motion to accept the recommendations would be in order, which would, if passed, adopt them all.

Are you trying to prevent an attempt to divide one or more of the amendments?

Edited January 10, 2023 at 04:14 AM by Gary Novosielski

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

They are not presented as a unit.  They are presented and adopted plank by plank typically.  Knowing the group I am involved in, it would be quite rare (though it has happened on occasion) for them to ever adopt a whole report.  The way the committees report out here is plank by plank, bylaw by bylaw.

 

I am not trying to do anything, right now the question is sheerly one of curiousity, not any present or anticipated situation.

Edited January 10, 2023 at 04:33 AM by Caryn Ann Harlos