Who can bring a motion to the floor?

[John Glover]

Can the Chair of a society bring a motion to the floor?

[Phil D]

Ordinarily a Chair cannot bring a motion to the floor without first vacating the Chair. However, there are certain circumstances in which a motion may be "assumed"--accepting committee reports for instance, to determine the method of an election, or to excuse the a member during deliberations over a disciplinary penalty against that member. 

[puzzling]

On 1/27/2023 at 3:32 AM, Phil D said:

Ordinarily a Chair cannot bring a motion to the floor without first vacating the Chair. However, there are certain circumstances in which a motion may be "assumed"--accepting committee reports for instance, to determine the method of an election, or to excuse the a member during deliberations over a disciplinary penalty against that member. 

While it is true that the chair can assume motions.

Both your examples are not good

Accepting committee  reports is one of the motions RONR frowns upon

Also the second one is not really a motio

[Richard Brown]

On 1/26/2023 at 9:19 PM, John Glover said:

Can the Chair of a society bring a motion to the floor?

Can you clarify your question? For example, are you asking if the chair can make a motion? In addition, please tell us whether you are referring to a board meeting, a committee meeting, or a general membership meeting.

Edited to add: The chair generally should not make motions in membership meetings without first vacating the chair. However, in committee meetings, the committee chair may make motions and participate just like all other members. The same rule applies to small boards of no more than about a dozen board members in attendance. In large boards of more than about a dozen members, the chair is generally subject to the same rules as the chair presiding at a membership meeting. Give us more information and we can perhaps give you a better answer.

Edited January 27, 2023 at 01:59 PM by Richard Brown
Added last paragraph

[Phil D]

On 1/27/2023 at 8:29 AM, puzzling said:

While it is true that the chair can assume motions.

Both your examples are not good

Accepting committee  reports is one of the motions RONR frowns upon

Also the second one is not really a motio

I should have more accurately said to adopt certain committee recommendations (though generally where the recommendation is a straightforward matter of a procedure).

the second is very much a motion—see 61:16

[John Glover]

My question is more basic.  Is the chair allowed to bring a motion to the floor that does NOT involve any assumptive issues " "assumed"--accepting committee reports for instance, to determine the method of an election, or to excuse the member during deliberations over a disciplinary penalty against that member. " 

The motion raised would be of an operational or financial issue? 

 

[Gary Novosielski]

On 1/29/2023 at 2:21 PM, John Glover said:

My question is more basic.  Is the chair allowed to bring a motion to the floor that does NOT involve any assumptive issues " "assumed"--accepting committee reports for instance, to determine the method of an election, or to excuse the member during deliberations over a disciplinary penalty against that member. " 

The motion raised would be of an operational or financial issue? 

 

Then the question hinges on whether small-board rules were in effect.  Please answer the question @Richard Brownasked:

On 1/27/2023 at 8:55 AM, Richard Brown said:

[P]lease tell us whether you are referring to a board meeting, a committee meeting, or a general membership meeting.

And what how many people were in the assembly that was meeting?

[John Glover]

It was a monthly Board meeting with six board members (two via video) and six observers who were members of the society.  

 

[Gary Novosielski]

On 1/29/2023 at 2:55 PM, John Glover said:

It was a monthly Board meeting with six board members (two via video) and six observers who were members of the society.  

 

Then almost certainly the small-board rules would apply.  The president may participate fully without leaving the chair.

See RONR (12th ed.) 49:21 Procedure in Small Boards.

 

[JTW]

On 1/29/2023 at 3:01 PM, Gary Novosielski said:

Then almost certainly the small-board rules would apply.  The president may participate fully without leaving the chair.

See RONR (12th ed.) 49:21 Procedure in Small Boards.

 

I am a member of a nine person school board where the president is also the parliamentarian. Would your assessment that the President can fully participate and make motions, without leaving the chair, apply in this instance as well?

[Dan Honemann]

On 2/15/2023 at 9:32 AM, JTW said:

I am a member of a nine person school board where the president is also the parliamentarian. Would your assessment that the President can fully participate and make motions, without leaving the chair, apply in this instance as well?

To say that the President is also the Parliamentarian is somewhat akin to saying that the President is also the Vice-President.  It makes no sense.

[JTW]

On 2/15/2023 at 9:36 AM, Dan Honemann said:

To say that the President is also the Parliamentarian is somewhat akin to saying that the President is also the Vice-President.  It makes no sense.

The bylaws of this school board, dated back to 2009 before I was elected, state the following:

"As presiding officer at all meetings of the Board, the President shall....

G. Answer all parliamentary inquiries, referring questions of law to the Board's Attorney;"

Is this improper, or maybe an instance of a person serving as both judge and jury, as you seem to suggest?

[Bruce Lages]

Take a look at RONR, 12th ed. 33:3-5 on Parliamentary Inquiries and see if that helps.

[Dan Honemann]

On 2/15/2023 at 9:48 AM, JTW said:

The bylaws of this school board, dated back to 2009 before I was elected, state the following:

"As presiding officer at all meetings of the Board, the President shall....

G. Answer all parliamentary inquiries, referring questions of law to the Board's Attorney;"

Is this improper, or maybe an instance of a person serving as both judge and jury, as you seem to suggest?

This provision of your bylaws properly recites some of the duties of your President.  It certainly does not say that your President is also your Parliamentarian.

[Atul Kapur]

This correlates with one of the duties if the presiding officer found in RONR at 47:7(9) "9) To respond to inquiries of members relating to parliamentary procedure (Parliamentary Inquiry, 33:3–5) or factual information (Request for Information, 33:6–10) bearing on the business of the assembly."

Edited February 15, 2023 at 03:38 PM by Atul Kapur

[Richard Brown]

On 2/15/2023 at 9:38 AM, Atul Kapur said:

This correlates with one of the duties if the presiding officer found in RONR at 47:7(9) "9) To respond to inquiries of members relating to parliamentary procedure (Parliamentary Inquiry, 33:3–5) or factual information (Request for Information, 33:6–10) bearing on the business of the assembly."

You beat me to it.  I was gonna say the same thing.  So, I'll just say "I agree". 

[JTW]

On 2/15/2023 at 10:38 AM, Atul Kapur said:

This correlates with one of the duties if the presiding officer found in RONR at 47:7(9) "9) To respond to inquiries of members relating to parliamentary procedure (Parliamentary Inquiry, 33:3–5) or factual information (Request for Information, 33:6–10) bearing on the business of the assembly."

After some review, in my school district's bylaws, there are two sections titled. 1) "Duties of President and Vice President", and 2) "Parliamentary Authority". And both of those sections directly refer to the President as presiding officer. Because of that, I assumed that the President was the Parliamentarian.

But as pointed out by Mr. Honemann, there is nothing in our bylaws that textually states that the President is the Parliamentarian. In addition, even though our bylaws and state laws both reference RONR 12th edition for Parliamentary procedures, neither specifically states who officially serves as Parliamentarian for a school district.

So with all of this in mind, I would just like to ask for verification of opinions mentioned in this thread which seem to lean towards a President or residing officer having the right to make motions?

[Joshua Katz]

On 2/15/2023 at 10:33 AM, JTW said:

After some review, in my school district's bylaws, there are two sections titled. 1) "Duties of President and Vice President", and 2) "Parliamentary Authority". And both of those sections directly refer to the President as presiding officer. Because of that, I assumed that the President was the Parliamentarian.

 

A parliamentarian is not (in general) a presiding officer. Rather, the parliamentarian's role is to give advice to the presiding officer, which the presiding officer then follows, or not. That is why it would not make sense for a presiding officer and parliamentarian to be the same person - he'd be giving himself advice. 

On 2/15/2023 at 10:33 AM, JTW said:

So with all of this in mind, I would just like to ask for verification of opinions mentioned in this thread which seem to lean towards a President or residing officer having the right to make motions?

Omitting some complexities, as discussed, it depends on the size of the meeting and the nature of the assembly. In small boards and committees, the presiding officer participates fully, including making motions. Not so in other bodies, where the presiding officer agrees not to exercise those rights.

[JTW]

On 2/15/2023 at 11:38 AM, Joshua Katz said:

Omitting some complexities, as discussed, it depends on the size of the meeting and the nature of the assembly. In small boards and committees, the presiding officer participates fully, including making motions. Not so in other bodies, where the presiding officer agrees not to exercise those rights.

Regarding size, our school board consists of nine members. Regarding nature, again it's a school board 

If a school board is a government body whose nine members are state officials, is it still considered a small board where a presiding officer can also make motions?

Edited February 15, 2023 at 05:14 PM by JTW

[Joshua Katz]

On 2/15/2023 at 11:11 AM, JTW said:

Regarding size, our school board consists of nine members. Regarding nature, again it's a school board 

 

That makes it a small board, per RONR.

On 2/15/2023 at 11:11 AM, JTW said:

If a school board is a government body whose nine members are state officials, is it still considered a small board where a presiding officer can also make motions?

Well, there's a hierarchy of rules. At the RONR level of the hierarchy, yes. But there might be rules at a higher level, such as applicable laws, that say otherwise, but are beyond the scope of this forum.

[JTW]

On 2/15/2023 at 12:39 PM, Joshua Katz said:

That makes it a small board, per RONR.

Well, there's a hierarchy of rules. At the RONR level of the hierarchy, yes. But there might be rules at a higher level, such as applicable laws, that say otherwise, but are beyond the scope of this forum.

Thank you for that input.

[Josh Martin]

On 2/15/2023 at 8:48 AM, JTW said:

The bylaws of this school board, dated back to 2009 before I was elected, state the following:

"As presiding officer at all meetings of the Board, the President shall....

G. Answer all parliamentary inquiries, referring questions of law to the Board's Attorney;"

Is this improper, or maybe an instance of a person serving as both judge and jury, as you seem to suggest?

The duties you cite here are duties of the presiding officer.

The duty of the parliamentarian is to advise the chair on parliamentary procedure. It remains the duty of the chair to rule on questions of order and respond to inquiries from members, with assistance from the parliamentarian.

So I would not say there is anything “improper” about a person serving in both roles, it just doesn’t make any sense to appoint the President as an advisor to himself.

In any event, it would appear that the President is not, in fact, the parliamentarian for your board, and I concur with my colleagues that the President in this instance is free to participate the same as any other member.

[JTW]

On 2/15/2023 at 1:01 PM, Josh Martin said:

The duties you cite here are duties of the presiding officer.

The duty of the parliamentarian is to advise the chair on parliamentary procedure. It remains the duty of the chair to rule on questions of order and respond to inquiries from members, with assistance from the parliamentarian.

So I would not say there is anything “improper” about a person serving in both roles, it just doesn’t make any sense to appoint the President as an advisor to himself.

In any event, it would appear that the President is not, in fact, the parliamentarian for your board, and I concur with my colleagues that the President in this instance is free to participate the same as any other member.

Thank you for your input, Josh.

[Richard Brown]

I concur with all of my colleagues who have opined that it does not at all appear, based on the information we have been given, that your president is also the parliamentarian.  I would say he pretty clearly is NOT.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 2/15/2023 at 9:48 AM, JTW said:

The bylaws of this school board, dated back to 2009 before I was elected, state the following:

"As presiding officer at all meetings of the Board, the President shall....

G. Answer all parliamentary inquiries, referring questions of law to the Board's Attorney;"

Is this improper, or maybe an instance of a person serving as both judge and jury, as you seem to suggest?

Yes, it is part of the duties of any presiding officer to answer Parliamentary Inquiries.  A parliamentarian is someone with extensive knowledge of parliamentary procedure who acts as an advisor to the presiding officer, so the two can't reasonably be the same person.  The presiding officer is never the judge and jury of any matter, because of the existence of the motion to Appeal from a decision of the chair.  Any two members (a mover and seconder) may subject a ruling of the chair to the judgment of the assembly, which may sustain or overrule it.   (Note that Parliamentary Inquiries are not considered "rulings".)

In my experience, if this is an elected public school board, then the president, as an elected member, has all the rights of any member, including the right to make motions, but as a matter of custom it would be unusual.  The president is often involved in the development of the agenda, if one is used, but the items of business there are often moved by committee chairs, or other members. Also, some school boards, by rule or custom, require seconds for motion, and sometimes record the names of seconders in the minutes.   I'm not sure if these are local or state adopted rules, or simply a case of "we've always done it that way."  

To the extent that RONR may be superseded by statues, regulations, and the like, the board attorney should be up to date on those.