Addressing Quorum in Standing Ruels

[Guest Scot Turner]

Is it possible for a convention (as defined in Section 59) to adopt standing rules (via 59:27-59:29), essentially eliminating quorum?

 

For context, section 2:16 references special rules of order superseding parliamentary authority so long as that specific rule is not prohibited from being altered in the bylaws. 

[Rob Elsman]

The correct answer depends on what the society's governing documents say about the required quorum.

[Guest Scot Turner]

Thank you, Mr, Elsman.

It appears 2:16 has a footnote that I am paraphrasing as some rules are restricted from being superseded by special rules in bylaws . Assuming the bylaws do not specifically prevent altering quorum unless by bylaws amendment, is it even possible for a standing rule to be adopted at convention essentially eliminating quorum?

In other words, the bylaws have a rule on quorum, but altering it is not specifically prohibited. In that instance, could a standing rule of the convention be adopted through the Committee on Standing Rules that would essentially eliminate quorum?

 

Thank you.

 

[Richard Brown]

On 3/23/2023 at 12:54 PM, Guest Scot Turner said:

Assuming the bylaws do not specifically prevent altering quorum unless by bylaws amendment, is it even possible for a standing rule to be adopted at convention essentially eliminating quorum?

No.  It would require an actual amendment of the bylaws.

[Rob Elsman]

I agree with @Richard Brown completely.

[Josh Martin]

On 3/23/2023 at 12:21 PM, Guest Scot Turner said:

Is it possible for a convention (as defined in Section 59) to adopt standing rules (via 59:27-59:29), essentially eliminating quorum?

Only if such rules would not conflict with a higher-level rule, such as a rule in the bylaws.

"The Committee on Standing Rules drafts and submits for consideration a group of rules known as “The Standing Rules of the Convention,” which, as adopted, will apply to that one convention only. These rules must in no way conflict with the bylaws of the society, but (in contrast to ordinary standing rules in a local society) they can involve modifications of rules contained in the parliamentary authority prescribed by the bylaws." RONR (12th ed.) 59:27, emphasis added

On 3/23/2023 at 12:21 PM, Guest Scot Turner said:

For context, section 2:16 references special rules of order superseding parliamentary authority so long as that specific rule is not prohibited from being altered in the bylaws. 

I think what you mean to say is that special rules of order may supersede the parliamentary authority unless the authority provides that the rule in question may only be superseded by a provision in the bylaws. With that clarification, this is correct.

"Special rules of order supersede any rules in the parliamentary authority with which they may conflict." RONR (12th ed.) 2:16

"However, when the parliamentary authority is prescribed in the bylaws, and that authority states that a certain rule can be altered only by a provision in the bylaws, no special rule of order can supersede that rule." RONR (12th ed.) 2:16n5

However, special rules of order cannot conflict with the bylaws.

"Except for the corporate charter in an incorporated society, the bylaws (as the single, combination-type instrument is called in this book) comprise the highest body of rules in societies as normally established today. Such an instrument supersedes all other rules of the society, except the corporate charter, if there is one." RONR (12th ed.) 2:12

On 3/23/2023 at 12:54 PM, Guest Scot Turner said:

It appears 2:16 has a footnote that I am paraphrasing as some rules are restricted from being superseded by special rules in bylaws. Assuming the bylaws do not specifically prevent altering quorum unless by bylaws amendment, is it even possible for a standing rule to be adopted at convention essentially eliminating quorum?

In other words, the bylaws have a rule on quorum, but altering it is not specifically prohibited. In that instance, could a standing rule of the convention be adopted through the Committee on Standing Rules that would essentially eliminate quorum?

If the parliamentary authority was all that was controlling on this matter, a convention would be free to adopt a standing rule "essentially eliminating quorum." Rules pertaining to quorum are not among the rules referred to in the footnote to 2:16. Rules in the parliamentary authority may be superseded by a special rule of order, or by a convention standing rule. Further, RONR specifically provides in the case of quorum that what RONR provides for a quorum is just a "default" if the organization's rules are silent. So nothing in RONR prevents a question from adopting any quorum it wishes.

But the question here isn't about rules superseding the parliamentary authority. You say that the bylaws "have a rule on quorum." If the bylaws have a rule on quorum, that rule must be followed, and cannot be changed except by amending the bylaws. No special rule of order or convention standing rule may conflict with the bylaws.

You say that altering this rule "is not specifically prohibited," but that's not how that works. Rules in the bylaws cannot be altered by a lower-level rule unless the bylaws so provide. It's not necessary for the bylaws to specifically state that a rule cannot be altered - the bylaws already take precedence over all other rules of the society.

Edited March 24, 2023 at 06:41 PM by Josh Martin