Tie Vote Incorrectly Adopted

[Wild Dunes]

A vote on a motion resulted in a tie vote. The tie vote was incorrectly adopted (announced it failed when it should have passed). How do we correct this? We are an HOA board and this is not covered by our Bylaws.

[Joshua Katz]

We'll need to understand a couple things. First, why should it have passed? In RONR, the general rule is that a motion fails on a tie vote. 

As a general matter (but it might depend on the answer to the above), you won't be able to do anything about it other than make the motion again, as it is too late to object to the chair's ruling.

[Josh Martin]

On 9/19/2023 at 2:51 AM, Wild Dunes said:

A vote on a motion resulted in a tie vote. The tie vote was incorrectly adopted (announced it failed when it should have passed). How do we correct this? We are an HOA board and this is not covered by our Bylaws.

From the facts presented, you don’t correct it. To the extent there was an error here, this does not constitute a continuing breach. The result announced by the chair stands. A member should have raised a point of order at the time.

(For future reference, on a tie vote, the motion is defeated.)

It’s somewhat unclear to me whether the motion was adopted or defeated since you seem to be saying inconsistent things in this regard. If it was defeated, a member who wants to change that can simply move it again at a future meeting. If it was adopted, a member who wants to change that can move to rescind the motion at a future meeting.

[Wild Dunes]

On 9/19/2023 at 4:07 AM, Joshua Katz said:

We'll need to understand a couple things. First, why should it have passed? In RONR, the general rule is that a motion fails on a tie vote. 

As a general matter (but it might depend on the answer to the above), you won't be able to do anything about it other than make the motion again, as it is too late to object to the chair's ruling.

It should not have passed. It was a tie and should have failed but the ruling was incorrect. 

Thank you for your clarification.

[Rob Elsman]

As Mr. Martin indicated, the announcement of the chair was, in error, that the motion was adopted.  The announcement, though made in error, stands, because no Point of Order was timely raised.

Unless an exception in RONR (12th ed.) 35:6 applies, the way forward is for a member to make the motion, Rescind.  Giving previous notice of the motion, though not required, may make it easier for the motion to be adopted.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 9/19/2023 at 3:51 AM, Wild Dunes said:

A vote on a motion resulted in a tie vote. The tie vote was incorrectly adopted (announced it failed when it should have passed). How do we correct this? We are an HOA board and this is not covered by our Bylaws.

If nobody raised a Point of Order at the time, the chair's announcement of the result stands.

The most effective time to note and correct breaches of the rules is when they occur.

[Wild Dunes]

On 9/19/2023 at 4:07 AM, Joshua Katz said:

We'll need to understand a couple things. First, why should it have passed? In RONR, the general rule is that a motion fails on a tie vote. 

As a general matter (but it might depend on the answer to the above), you won't be able to do anything about it other than make the motion again, as it is too late to object to the chair's ruling.

As I stated in my question, I understand it failed. Unfortunately, the chair's ruling was incorrect. Thank you for the explanation that the motion will have to be made again.

[Wild Dunes]

On 9/19/2023 at 9:47 AM, Josh Martin said:

From the facts presented, you don’t correct it. To the extent there was an error here, this does not constitute a continuing breach. The result announced by the chair stands. A member should have raised a point of order at the time.

(For future reference, on a tie vote, the motion is defeated.)

It’s somewhat unclear to me whether the motion was adopted or defeated since you seem to be saying inconsistent things in this regard. If it was defeated, a member who wants to change that can simply move it again at a future meeting. If it was adopted, a member who wants to change that can move to rescind the motion at a future meeting.

Yes, I understand the motion is defeated on a tie vote. Unfortunately, it was not ruled that way. Thank you for the clarification, it will come up in the next board meeting.

[Wild Dunes]

On 9/19/2023 at 12:48 PM, Rob Elsman said:

As Mr. Martin indicated, the announcement of the chair was, in error, that the motion was adopted.  The announcement, though made in error, stands, because no Point of Order was timely raised.

Unless an exception in RONR (12th ed.) 35:6 applies, the way forward is for a member to make the motion, Rescind.  Giving previous notice of the motion, though not required, may make it easier for the motion to be adopted.

Thank you for the reply that I have bolded. We will study this.

[Atul Kapur]

On 9/20/2023 at 3:39 AM, Wild Dunes said:

As I stated in my question, I understand it failed. Unfortunately, the chair's ruling was incorrect. Thank you for the explanation that the motion will have to be made again.

On a tie vote, the motion should have been announced as lost. It sounds like the chair announced that it was adopted. As no point of order was made, the motion was adopted (as the chair declared) and is in effect. So there is no need for the motion to be made again.

As Mr. Elsman said, those who are opposed to the motion can move to Rescind the motion that was adopted.

[Joshua Katz]

On 9/20/2023 at 4:26 AM, Atul Kapur said:

So there is no need for the motion to be made again.

Yes, it appears I misunderstood the question:

On 9/20/2023 at 3:39 AM, Wild Dunes said:

As I stated in my question, I understand it failed. Unfortunately, the chair's ruling was incorrect.

 

[Wild Dunes]

On 9/20/2023 at 1:26 AM, Atul Kapur said:

On a tie vote, the motion should have been announced as lost. It sounds like the chair announced that it was adopted. As no point of order was made, the motion was adopted (as the chair declared) and is in effect. So there is no need for the motion to be made again.

As Mr. Elsman said, those who are opposed to the motion can move to Rescind the motion that was adopted.

Thank you. I did misunderstand a previous post. I do apologize, I'm a RONR novice. No, no point of order was made and the motion was adopted and in effect. It will be on the next agenda to rescind.