Question on number of votes needed for passage

[Guest Kent T]

On a five-member council, one member is absent. Can the hiring of a new employee take place by a 2-1 vote, or does it take 3 affirmative votes?

[Guest Kent T]

On 10/31/2023 at 4:18 PM, Guest Kent T said:

On a five-member council, one member is absent. Can the hiring of a new employee take place by a 2-1 vote, or does it take 3 affirmative votes?

One member has a conflict of interest as it is his wife that is being hired to be city clerk! 

[George Mervosh]

If this council is a government body, its solicitor should advise the council on this, since applicable procedural rules in statute or council's own rules may speak to the matter and they take precedence over the rules in RONR.

If the rules in RONR control the matter, 2-1 is sufficient.  Also, nothing in RONR would require a member to abstain from voting for a relative to fill the position in question.

[Joshua Katz]

In general, unless your rules say otherwise, hiring of an employee requires a majority vote of the body authorized to hire employees. A vote of 2-1 is a majority vote, as there are more votes in the affirmative than in the negative. 

[Josh Martin]

On 10/31/2023 at 4:25 PM, George Mervosh said:

Also, nothing in RONR would require a member to abstain from voting for a relative to fill the position in question.

I believe, however, that RONR would suggest that such a member should abstain. I would view hiring a member's spouse as a personal or pecuniary interest not in common with other members.

As you note, there are also quite likely rules outside of RONR on this matter, given the nature of the assembly in question.

Edited November 2, 2023 at 03:15 PM by Josh Martin

[Rob Elsman]

On 11/2/2023 at 10:14 AM, Josh Martin said:

I would view hiring a member's spouse as a personal or pecuniary interest not in common with other members.

I might have agreed with Mr. Martin fifty years ago, but my own sense of it is that this is a little out-of-date.

[Dan Honemann]

On 11/2/2023 at 11:21 AM, Rob Elsman said:

I might have agreed with Mr. Martin fifty years ago, but my own sense of it is that this is a little out-of-date.

Are you suggesting that marriage has lost its meaning?

[Rob Elsman]

Times are a'changin.  In terms of the employment environment, I do think spousal or partner relationships are of less importance than they might have been in the past.

[Josh Martin]

On 11/2/2023 at 10:52 AM, Rob Elsman said:

Times are a'changin.  In terms of the employment environment, I do think spousal or partner relationships are of less importance than they might have been in the past.

I think there is no doubt that various things have changed in regard to the employment environment and spousal or partner relationships, but I still maintain that hiring a member's spouse constitutes "a personal or pecuniary interest not in common with other members."

As in any other case, however, ultimately it will be up to the member himself to determine this, at least so far as the rules in RONR are concerned. (As this is a public body, there may be, and probably are, stricter rules on this matter in the council's rules and/or applicable law.)

[Gary Novosielski]

On 11/2/2023 at 11:45 AM, Dan Honemann said:

Are you suggesting that marriage has lost its meaning?

Apparently, as evidenced by the fact that women can actually get credit cards nowadays.  

I know, right?