Moving a motion submitted by an absent member

[Guest Craig Gordon]

The standing rules of our deliberative body requires that any New Business Item for a meeting be submitted via an online form by a certain date and time prior to the meeting. The maker of a particular motion submitted it on time and the full text of the NBI now appears in the agenda.  However, the maker is very ill and may not be able to participate in the meeting today (even though it's on Zoom). Without moving to suspend the rules (and I'm not even sure what rule to suspend), is there a specific provision in RONR that permits someone else who is in favor of this NBI to move it? 

I found responses to a question regarding this situation in this forum in 2019 here https://robertsrules.forumflash.com/topic/33651-motion-in-absentia/#replyForm

But I do not see any responses pointing to any specific language I can find in RONR 12th ed., only a comment that it's on "line 12" of "page 1" of RONR. Or the footnote for that point.

Here is the only provision under RONR 1:1 that has a footnote:

The group meets in a single room or area or under equivalent conditions of opportunity for simultaneous aural communication among all participants.1  

The footnote concerns meetings conducted in writing. So that can't be it.

The next bullet, which includes "line 12" in my digital version of RONR 12th ed, says:

 

• Persons having the right to participate—that is, the members—are ordinarily free to act within the assembly according to their own judgment.

Is that it? That members can use their own judgment? I hope there's something more specific to address this situation.

 

[Rob Elsman]

I think the organization's own rules will govern this situation.

[Joshua Katz]

Well, RONR does not require, in general, notice for new business. This is a rule of your organization's making, and so its implications are for your organization.

The parallel provision in RONR would be that, when notice is either required or given to lower a threshold, there is no rule that the person who gave notice make the motion. But I don't have a cite for that, just the lack of one for the opposite.

The older question you reference, in addition to using an earlier edition of the book, was answering a very different question. There the question was whether a member who is not present may make a motion, and the answer was no. But that doesn't answer this question.

 

[Bruce Lages]

The important RONR reference will be 1:4, which describes the rights of members of an assembly, one of which is to make motions. It is not clear to me whether your rule requiring advance notice of a new business item constitutes giving previous notice of the intent to make the motion as defined in RONR (10:44). But that motion must still be made at a meeting,  whether or not previous notice has been given. In other words giving previous notice does not constitute actualIy making the motion.

I would say that if the agenda of this meeting is available to all members so that the exact wording or the specific intent of the submitted motion is known to all members attending, then if the member submitting the advance notice is not present nothing in RONR would interfere with the right, as expressed in 1:4, of any other member present to make the motion.

[Guest Craig Gordon]

On 12/4/2023 at 11:44 AM, Joshua Katz said:

The older question you reference, in addition to using an earlier edition of the book, was answering a very different question. There the question was whether a member who is not present may make a motion, and the answer was no. But that doesn't answer this question.

That's true, the title of the question was "Motion in abstentia," but then the questioner then made clear that his situation was exactly the same as mine: the absent member had submitted the motion in advance, so could someone else be allowed to move it? 

I should make clear that our standing rules state that a member "must submit New Business Items to the Google Form provided by the Secretary by 6:00 PM on the Friday prior to the regularly scheduled" meeting.  This requirement was met and the NBI was published prior to the meeting, as also required by the standing rules. 

So now that I know that someone else may present the motion, I have two questions:

1. When this motion is introduced, the chair of our meetings normally states the name of the maker to call on that person to speak to the motion, what should another member who wishes to move the motion in the absence of the original maker say to be recognized? 

2. Once that person is recognized, if the chair says he/she cannot make the motion in place of the original maker, should that person say something like the following (hopefully to convince the chair without being required to formally appeal to the decision of the chair)?

Mr. Chair, our standing rules require that for a motion to be heard, it must be submitted by Friday at 6 PM, and this motion was submitted on time and was published in the agenda. Robert's Rules 10:44 states, "A requirement of previous notice means that announcement that the motion will be introduced—indicating its exact content as described below —must be included in the call of the meeting." This requirement has been met. Nothing in our standing rules prohibits another member from stepping up to make a motion that has met this requirement in the event that the original maker falls ill and is unable to attend the meeting. In addition, Robert's Rules 1:4 states, "A member of an assembly . . . is entitled to full participation in the proceedings" and that this includes the right to make motions.

Does that cover it?

 

 

[Joshua Katz]

On 12/4/2023 at 4:01 PM, Guest Craig Gordon said:

So now that I know that someone else may present the motion, I have two questions:

 

Well, I didn't say that, I said it's a matter of interpreting your rules, and that RONR presents no bar to doing so, and appears persuasive on the matter.

On 12/4/2023 at 4:01 PM, Guest Craig Gordon said:

1. When this motion is introduced, the chair of our meetings normally states the name of the maker to call on that person to speak to the motion, what should another member who wishes to move the motion in the absence of the original maker say to be recognized? 

 

I would say something like "Mr. Chair, may I be recognized?"

On 12/4/2023 at 4:01 PM, Guest Craig Gordon said:

2. Once that person is recognized, if the chair says he/she cannot make the motion in place of the original maker, should that person say something like the following (hopefully to convince the chair without being required to formally appeal to the decision of the chair)?

 

Mr. Chair, our standing rules require that for a motion to be heard, it must be submitted by Friday at 6 PM, and this motion was submitted on time and was published in the agenda. Robert's Rules 10:44 states, "A requirement of previous notice means that announcement that the motion will be introduced—indicating its exact content as described below —must be included in the call of the meeting." This requirement has been met. Nothing in our standing rules prohibits another member from stepping up to make a motion that has met this requirement in the event that the original maker falls ill and is unable to attend the meeting. In addition, Robert's Rules 1:4 states, "A member of an assembly . . . is entitled to full participation in the proceedings" and that this includes the right to make motions. Additionally, RONR contains analogous rules for notice to ours, and when those rules apply, RONR does not require that the member who gave notice make the motion. Our rule should be read the same.

 

[Gary Novosielski]

 

On 12/4/2023 at 4:10 PM, Joshua Katz said:

Mr. Chair, our standing rules require that for a motion to be heard, it must be submitted by Friday at 6 PM, and this motion was submitted on time and was published in the agenda. Robert's Rules 10:44 states, "A requirement of previous notice means that announcement that the motion will be introduced—indicating its exact content as described below —must be included in the call of the meeting." This requirement has been met. Nothing in our standing rules prohibits another member from stepping up to make a motion that has met this requirement in the event that the original maker falls ill and is unable to attend the meeting. In addition, Robert's Rules 1:4 states, "A member of an assembly . . . is entitled to full participation in the proceedings" and that this includes the right to make motions. Additionally, RONR contains analogous rules for notice to ours, and when those rules apply, RONR does not require that the member who gave notice make the motion. Our rule should be read the same.

 

 

I think the proper response if the chair balks at recognizing the member who wishes to make the motion is either:

• Point of Order, after which the suggested language could form the statement of the point; or
• I Appeal from the Decision of the Chair, after which the suggested language could form the debate on the appeal.

-or possibly both, in that order.