Positive ways to incorporate the "Immediate Past President"?

[Guest MusicLover]

Hi everyone, I am trying to submit some major bylaw amendments for consideration for our small nonprofit of around 30 members (and 8 volunteer unpaid board members including myself). They haven't been reviewed at all in over 10 years, and many of the things we have been doing today were not at all included or reflected in our bylaws.

One major area we have discussed in depth is the executive board positions as well as their terms of office. Times have changed a LOT for us ever since 2020 and 1 year terms of office just isn' t productive for our future we all have agreed, plus there were a few positions voting and participating today that were not in the bylaws.

I have read a lot about the Past President role, and how many say its not a great idea to make this an "automatic" position for many reasons. So what I was curious to hear from you all is if you have found positive & productive ways to incorporate this role into your board? at this time the majority of the board is in favor of this position so I don't think it would fly if I tried to completely remove it at this time. 

[Weldon Merritt]

On 4/4/2024 at 7:28 PM, Guest MusicLover said:

I have read a lot about the Past President role, and how many say its not a great idea to make this an "automatic" position for many reasons. So what I was curious to hear from you all is if you have found positive & productive ways to incorporate this role into your board? at this time the majority of the board is in favor of this position so I don't think it would fly if I tried to completely remove it at this time. 

I don't see any way you could include the IPP position on the board without risking the negative consequences that most of us here routinely warn against. I have seen organization's that include the position and have not yet  experienced any of the potential negative consequences. But the fact that  they have not does not mean that they will not.

Just in case you have not seen a full list of the potential problems, following is a list compiled by the late Dr. John Stackpole, who was a frequent contributor to this forum:

Quote

 

IPP is a Bad Idea:

And here's some reasons why the position is a bad idea:

In my personal view, setting up an "official" Immediate Past President (IPP) position is not a particularly good idea.  The most telling argument is the real possibility of a close and bitter race for the presidency, with the current president running (for a second term) against an "outsider".  And the outsider - the "reform candidate", perhaps - wins but is still stuck with the thorn of the IPP on the Board in a position to snipe at the new president.  And perhaps attempt to undermine the new president's plans.  Not to mention vote against them.

If the erstwhile president is a "good guy" the new president can (usually, depending on the bylaws) appoint him to a pre-existing committee - or even have him chair one, which might put him on the Board - as the new president sees fit.  That way the IPP's experience and value can be put to good use, when needed, without the danger of setting up an adversarial situation which would require a bylaw amendment to get out of.

Here's some more reasons

1) The President resigns and wants nothing to do with the organization.
 
2) The President simply doesn't run for election again because he's had enough, and never shows up at a board meeting.
 
3) The President is booted out of office for being incompetent, or for something more nefarious.
 
4) The President dies.
 
5) The President resigns and moves (wants to help but isn't around).

6) Even worse is the bylaw assignment of the IPP to chair a committee - such as nominating.  Then he dies/quits/leaves town, &c.  You are then stuck with an unfillable (by definition) vacancy.

Note that except for item 4, the IPP may well be part of the quorum requirement for meetings, even though he never shows up.

 

Our suggestion is to amend your bylaws to eliminate the position.

 

If those arguments don't convince the others, then good luck. Just hope none of those eventualities occur.

[Joshua Katz]

The board could, in its discretion, involve the IPP without necessarily putting it in the bylaws. He could, when desired, be consulted, and invited to meetings as a special advisor without a vote. Just one idea.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 4/4/2024 at 7:28 PM, Guest MusicLover said:

Hi everyone, I am trying to submit some major bylaw amendments for consideration for our small nonprofit of around 30 members (and 8 volunteer unpaid board members including myself). They haven't been reviewed at all in over 10 years, and many of the things we have been doing today were not at all included or reflected in our bylaws.

One major area we have discussed in depth is the executive board positions as well as their terms of office. Times have changed a LOT for us ever since 2020 and 1 year terms of office just isn' t productive for our future we all have agreed, plus there were a few positions voting and participating today that were not in the bylaws.

I have read a lot about the Past President role, and how many say its not a great idea to make this an "automatic" position for many reasons. So what I was curious to hear from you all is if you have found positive & productive ways to incorporate this role into your board? at this time the majority of the board is in favor of this position so I don't think it would fly if I tried to completely remove it at this time. 

 

None.

[Josh Martin]

On 4/4/2024 at 7:28 PM, Guest MusicLover said:

I have read a lot about the Past President role, and how many say its not a great idea to make this an "automatic" position for many reasons. So what I was curious to hear from you all is if you have found positive & productive ways to incorporate this role into your board? at this time the majority of the board is in favor of this position so I don't think it would fly if I tried to completely remove it at this time. 

I concur with all of my colleagues, but to the extent you are unable to persuade the rest of the board to "completely remove" the IPP position, some ideas which occur to me to mitigate the potential damage would be:

Option A: Provide something like "The Immediate Past President shall serve as an ex-officio member of the board, unless otherwise ordered by the board."

Option B: Provide something like "The board shall elect a former President to serve as a member of the board and as an advisor to the board." (It may well be that the immediate past president is the person customarily elected to this position.)

Either of these provides an "escape hatch" in the event something goes horribly wrong. The difference is that in Option A, it's either the IPP or nothing; in Option B, a different Past President could be chosen. 

If you do a quick search for Immediate Past President on this forum, you'll find that this position works fine... until it doesn't, and then it really doesn't. Your organization, thankfully, doesn't seem to have had a problem yet. But it might in the future.

Edited April 5, 2024 at 01:23 PM by Josh Martin

[Casey239]

On 4/4/2024 at 8:28 PM, Guest MusicLover said:

I have read a lot about the Past President role, and how many say its not a great idea to make this an "automatic" position for many reasons. So what I was curious to hear from you all is if you have found positive & productive ways to incorporate this role into your board

Yes.   Each president of our non-profit, volunteer church group serves 2 years.  When the next President takes over, the Immediate Past President usually moves over to be a member of/or chair to the Leadership team. With 2 years of experience, they each have a wealth of experience and knowledge about the membership.  This has worked out well for us.  If they choose to be an officer and chair the Leadership team, they are then a part of the Board of Directors.  Just ensure you have flexibility.   For instance, we just had an election.  Our current president, soon to be the IPP, is not taking any role in Leadership or other committee. 

Just giving my two cents....

[Drake Savory]

On 4/4/2024 at 7:05 PM, Weldon Merritt said:

I don't see any way you could include the IPP position on the board without risking the negative consequences that most of us here routinely warn against.

I can state without doubt that had we had an IPP position on our Board, one election would have cause 6 years of turmoil.  I cannot think of any positives had we had that position.  One thing that did help what to have our 2 state delegates on the Board but that is a whole other thing.

[J. J.]

Make it a lofty title with no duties or abilities. 

[MusicLover]

Thank you all for your thoughts and feedback!

[Drake Savory]

On 4/5/2024 at 3:59 PM, J. J. said:

Make it a lofty title with no duties or abilities. 

Make it similar to a parliamentarian

1) Serves at the pleasure of the President.  If the President does not want the IPP there then he has no right to be there.

2)  Consultant only.  No vote, right to make motions or debate.  Addresses the assembly only by leave of the President.

[Casey239]

How sad...parliamentarian does more than that.   Think of structure, bylaws, representing the assembly, ensuring said assembly has a voice in all issues, think infrastructure and bones upholding a fragile body.   I have decided that as parliamentarian I can educate - so I'm writing a newsletter to inform the assembly of our goals and inserting a sneaky Parliamentary Minute as a staple to held inform about procedure. I'm also starting a resource library for our new leaders of committees.  Big goals, we shall see how it works out. 

It is what you make it....🥈

 

[Josh Martin]

On 4/7/2024 at 7:28 PM, Casey239 said:

How sad...parliamentarian does more than that.   Think of structure, bylaws, representing the assembly, ensuring said assembly has a voice in all issues, think infrastructure and bones upholding a fragile body.   I have decided that as parliamentarian I can educate - so I'm writing a newsletter to inform the assembly of our goals and inserting a sneaky Parliamentary Minute as a staple to held inform about procedure. I'm also starting a resource library for our new leaders of committees.  Big goals, we shall see how it works out. 

It is what you make it....🥈

But I don't think anything Mr. Savory has said conflicts with this. Mr. Savory notes that 1.) the parliamentarian serves at the pleasure of the President (since the primary role of the parliamentarian is to advise the presiding officer and, therefore, the presiding officer should be able to appoint someone they trust), and 2.) the parliamentarian, in order to maintain the appearance of impartiality, does not make motions, vote, or speak in debate. Mr. Savory correctly notes that the parliamentarian serves as a "consultant," but does not describe the specific duties of a parliamentarian.

I have no disagreement that all of the duties you describe are appropriate (and admirable) tasks for the parliamentarian to undertake, and I doubt Mr. Savory has any disagreement on this point either.

The role of the parliamentarian is discussed in more detail in RONR (12th ed.) 47:46-56.

Edited April 8, 2024 at 12:36 PM by Josh Martin