Consequencs of Approved Minutes Omitting Elected Member's Name

[Guest Bob]

Hello,

At my university, the general faculty meeting last April elected several people to standing committees. The minutes of the meeting erroneously dropped the name of one elected member. But the error was not detected when the minutes were subsequently approved. The terms of service on standing committees has already started. My question is this: Is the member whose name was dropped from the approved minutes still an elected member of the committee to which he was elected? In other words, can he serve on the standing committee before the approved minutes are corrected at the next general faculty meeting? Note that last year's secretary acknowledges the error. He emailed last year's chair of that particular committee the names of those elected to the committee. That email exists. And the fact of the election and its results are not challenged by anyone. I would appreciate your views.

[Trina]

The minutes are only a record (hopefully accurate) of what happened. Errors in the minutes do not change the reality of what happened. So, of course, the person who was elected was elected and can serve, regardless of the status of the minutes.

edited to add: Even if no minutes at all had yet been approved, reality still stands -- the results of the election became effective as soon as they were announced, prior to the writing and approval of any minutes at all.

[George Mervosh]

And correct the record at the next meeting. http://www.robertsrules.com/faq.html#16

[Guest Bob]

Trina and George, Thanks for your help. And George, thanks for the link about the motion to amend approved minutes. I agree with you both. Trina, your "edited to add" comment is exactly what I think. But the officers of the faculty are insisting that the faculty member is not elected, and their decision is causing havoc. I worry that the elected person, who is suited for serving on this committee, will withdraw.

[Trina]

Trina and George, Thanks for your help. And George, thanks for the link about the motion to amend approved minutes. I agree with you both. Trina, your "edited to add" comment is exactly what I think. But the officers of the faculty are insisting that the faculty member is not elected, and their decision is causing havoc. I worry that the elected person, who is suited for serving on this committee, will withdraw.

In hopes that a citation may help:

'An election to an office becomes final immediately if the candidate is present and does not decline, or if he is absent but has consented to his candidacy. If he is absent and has not consented to his candidacy, the election becomes final when he is notified of this election, provided that he does not immediately decline.' (RONR 11th ed. p. 444 ll. 18-23) 'Final' means exactly what it says. Notice that there is no mention of the minutes at all -- the minutes have nothing to do with the status of those who are elected.

[Guest Edgar]

I worry that the elected person, who is suited for serving on this committee, will withdraw.

Well, he could resign (which is "a request to be excused from a duty"), but that request could be denied.

[Shmuel Gerber]

The minutes are only a record (hopefully accurate) of what happened. Errors in the minutes do not change the reality of what happened. So, of course, the person who was elected was elected and can serve, regardless of the status of the minutes.

edited to add: Even if no minutes at all had yet been approved, reality still stands -- the results of the election became effective as soon as they were announced, prior to the writing and approval of any minutes at all.

But there is a big difference between not having any approved minutes of a meeting, and having minutes that have been approved but that are alleged to be inaccurate.

Although the content of the minutes cannot change the reality of what happened, the minutes are the official record of what happened. So, if the committee in question has no direct knowledge of who has been elected to it, or if there is any actual disagreement about what really happened, then I think the content of the approved minutes would take precedence over the letter sent by the secretary.

But if there is no actual disagreement, and everyone involved knows that the minutes are mistaken, then I think it would be irresponsible to prevent the member from serving on the committee simply because the minutes have not yet been properly corrected -- because when the minutes are eventually corrected, they will be the official record of what took place back at the original meeting, and then it will turn out that, retrospectively, the committee member was wrongly prevented from serving.

[Guest Bob]

Trina, *thank you* for that quotation! It is indeed very helpful!

Shmuel, yes, you raise very pertinent points. But matters stand as you state them in the third paragraph of your post. In other words, no one in any way questions the facts. Everybody agrees that the elections took place and that the person was in fact elected. Everybody also agrees that the minutes contain a clerical error. And then there is that email record to last year's committee chair the day after the election that names the people elected to the committee.

Edgar, some people may be trying to get him to resign.

[Gary Novosielski]

But the officers of the faculty are insisting that the faculty member is not elected, and their decision is causing havoc. I worry that the elected person, who is suited for serving on this committee, will withdraw.

One problem with some "faculty" members I have known is that they make their living speaking the Word, and are quite unaccustomed to being wrong, or at least being told that they are wrong. (And I say that as a member of a faculty.)

In this case, however, there is no room for argument, not even insistent argument. They are dead flat wrong--so wrong, in fact, that they should feel perilously close to being laughed at.

Facts matter. If a person was elected, he was elected. The group can take its sweet time (not that they should) in making the minutes agree with reality, but in the meantime, the earth does not stop, the skies do not darken, the seas do not part, and things in reality go on exactly as if the minutes were correct, which all concerned should do everything they can to make happen. But even if they don't, facts matter.

[Guest Nancy N.]

4 AM; plaudits to Gary Novosielski's declaration. (As usual, as if it needs it.)

[tctheatc]

In this case, however, there is no room for argument, not even insistent argument. They are dead flat wrong--so wrong, in fact, that they should feel perilously close to being laughed at.

That line was already crossed, at least here.