abstentions in "present" vs. "present and voting"

[sgbdc2]

FAQ # 6 says: "On the other hand, if the vote required is a majority or two thirds of the members present, or a majority or two thirds of the entire membership, an abstention will have the same effect as a “no” vote." My question is, does the effect of an abstention change if the by-law says "a majority of the members present and voting" vs. just "present"? Thanks in advance.

[Hieu H. Huynh]

Yes, there is a difference between "a majority of the members present and voting" and "a majority of the members present". Since abstentions are not votes, "a majority of the members present and voting" does not include abstentions while "a majority of the members present" could be interpreted to include members not voting.

[Kim Goldsworthy]

 

Does the effect of an abstention change

if the by-law says

"a majority of the members present and voting"

vs.

just "present"?

Yes.

Example.

Imagine a meeting with nine (9) members, fully empowered to vote.

 

If all nine (9) members vote, then

(a.) a majority of members present (5)

and

(b.) a majority of members present and voting (5)

is one and the same.

 

If only one member votes, while 8 members abstain, then

the vote is recorded as either 1-0 (adoption) or 0-1 (rejection), and

(a.) a majority of members present remains the same (5)

but

(b.) a majority of members present and voting is one (1).

[Guest Abstention and quorum]

What if those voting for a motion where there must be a majority of those present and voting, are in the majority, but are less than a quorum?

[George Mervosh]

5 minutes ago, Guest Abstention and quorum said:

What if those voting for a motion where there must be a majority of those present and voting, are in the majority, but are less than a quorum?

A vote of 1-0 adopts a motion, as long as a quorum is in the room.  Next time please start a new topic as Mr. Gerber states here https://robertsrules.forumflash.com/topic/25416-important-read-this-first-faq-and-information-for-new-members-and-guests/

 

[Richard Brown]

3 minutes ago, Guest Abstention and quorum said:

What if those voting for a motion where there must be a majority of those present and voting, are in the majority, but are less than a quorum?

Unless you have a strange provision in your bylaws or controlling state law that we don't know about, a motion carries with a majority vote as long as a quorum is present.  If you have 50 members and a quorum is 26 and the bare minimum for a quorum is present (26), a vote of 1 to 0 is a majority vote and the motion would be adopted.  The 25 abstentions don't count and don't affect the outcome.  An abstention, by definition, is not a vote.