post54 Posted December 15, 2014 at 06:23 AM Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 at 06:23 AM In the approved minutes of a condo board are both the owners name and unit number supposed to be redacted or just the owners name? If there is a reference in RONR to redaction a page number would also be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted December 15, 2014 at 06:43 AM Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 at 06:43 AM In the approved minutes of a condo board are both the owners name and unit number supposed to be redacted or just the owners name?If there is a reference in RONR to redaction a page number would also be greatly appreciated. NOTHING is redacted from the approved minutes. There is nothing in RONR which suggests that any information should ever be redacted from approved minutes. As you have noted in previous threads, your board apparently sends out a document to the membership in which some information is removed or redacted. This document should not be referred to as the minutes, and the board should keep a complete and accurate copy of the minutes for its own records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted December 15, 2014 at 01:46 PM Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 at 01:46 PM In the approved minutes of a condo board are both the owners name and unit number supposed to be redacted or just the owners name?If there is a reference in RONR to redaction a page number would also be greatly appreciated. Nothing may be "redacted" from the minutes. The word "redact" does not occur in the Work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Guest Posted December 15, 2014 at 01:58 PM Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 at 01:58 PM Nothing may be "redacted" from the minutes. The word "redact" does not occur in the Work. And nothing may be expunged from approved minutes (even though the word "expunge" occurs in the Work). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary c Tesser Posted December 17, 2014 at 10:06 PM Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 at 10:06 PM Of course, nobody around here is going to say that your unit numbers need to appear in your minutes (or "Posting," or "Draft," or Epistles) in the first place, and for the most part, that also goes for members' names (except, obviously, for the names of movers of motions, the named members of committees, members giving reports, members named in motions, me now and then just to be on the safe side, &c &c). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted December 18, 2014 at 05:34 PM Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 at 05:34 PM Of course, nobody around here is going to say that your unit numbers need to appear in your minutes... Well, they might. Suppose there was a motion to paint unit #3 red? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
post54 Posted December 19, 2014 at 06:48 AM Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 at 06:48 AM Well, they might. Suppose there was a motion to paint unit #3 red?I think I agree it may be important to include unit #s but perhaps due to FOIP names should be redacted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted December 19, 2014 at 12:44 PM Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 at 12:44 PM I think I agree it may be important to include unit #s but perhaps due to FOIP names should be redacted.You cannot redact ANYTHING from the minutes, or they cease to be the minutes. What you do with miscellaneous documents that contain incomplete portions of the minutes is your business, and not covered by RONR. RONR doesn't deal with FOIP. (Are you in Canada?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted December 19, 2014 at 02:40 PM Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 at 02:40 PM You cannot redact ANYTHING from the minutes, or they cease to be the minutes. What you do with miscellaneous documents that contain incomplete portions of the minutes is your business, and not covered by RONR.Well, you're not supposed to actually redact anything from the minutes according to RONR. But, if you do so anyway, I believe they will still be the minutes, just minutes that have been tampered with and may no longer be accurate. But, having minutes that are inaccurate is certainly nothing new. The organization's minutes are what the organization says they are. I will need a citation to convince me that minutes cease to be minutes if something is redacted from them by order of the assembly. Just as the assembly's decision on an appeal from a point of order may not be correct, it is still the assembly's final word and is binding unless overturned by a court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted December 19, 2014 at 05:08 PM Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 at 05:08 PM Well, you're not supposed to actually redact anything from the minutes according to RONR. But, if you do so anyway, I believe they will still be the minutes, just minutes that have been tampered with and may no longer be accurate. But, having minutes that are inaccurate is certainly nothing new. The organization's minutes are what the organization says they are. I will need a citation to convince me that minutes cease to be minutes if something is redacted from them by order of the assembly. Just as the assembly's decision on an appeal from a point of order may not be correct, it is still the assembly's final word and is binding unless overturned by a court. The purpose of this forum is to provide information and advice based upon the rules in RONR. Of course organizations may ignore these rules if they wish, and may do whatever they want to do with their minutes, but noting that this is so is not at all helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted December 19, 2014 at 07:19 PM Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 at 07:19 PM I think I agree it may be important to include unit #s but perhaps due to FOIP names should be redacted.The board minutes themselves are accessible only to board members, so I don't really understand what concern there can be with letting the board know things it already knows about. If you want to release a separate document for the use of members of the society and redact things from that document, that's fine, but the minutes themselves are not to be tampered with. If unit numbers or names of members are included in something which would belong in the minutes to begin with (such as the text of a motion), then they stay in the minutes.If there is indeed a concern that applicable law may say something different on this subject, that's a question for a lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted December 19, 2014 at 07:24 PM Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 at 07:24 PM I'm not familiar with the Canadian FOIP law, or even whether it's applicable to this organization at all, but it does seem to me that information that has been redacted is inherently less "free" than information which is true, correct, and complete. But maybe that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
post54 Posted December 20, 2014 at 01:29 AM Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 at 01:29 AM The board minutes themselves are accessible only to board members, so I don't really understand what concern there can be with letting the board know things it already knows about. If you want to release a separate document for the use of members of the society and redact things from that document, that's fine, but the minutes themselves are not to be tampered with. If unit numbers or names of members are included in something which would belong in the minutes to begin with (such as the text of a motion), then they stay in the minutes.If there is indeed a concern that applicable law may say something different on this subject, that's a question for a lawyer.Our minutes are available to any owner or realtor that would like a copy. This copy has unit #s and names redacted. Although I am not sure this is correct. I question whether unit #s should be redacted. In speaking with a lawyer on this topic he said that when he reads minutes he needs to know the unit #. There is a copy of the minutes that do not have anything redacted although these are not signed. These probably should be signed, not just the copy that is distributed to non-board members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted December 20, 2014 at 02:48 AM Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 at 02:48 AM Our minutes are available to any owner or realtor that would like a copy. This copy has unit #s and names redacted. Although I am not sure this is correct. I question whether unit #s should be redacted. In speaking with a lawyer on this topic he said that when he reads minutes he needs to know the unit #.There is a copy of the minutes that do not have anything redacted although these are not signed. These probably should be signed, not just the copy that is distributed to non-board members. The copy of the minutes which is kept by the board (and has no redactions) should indeed be signed, since that is the true, official copy of the minutes. If it is merely past practice or custom that the minutes are available to any member of the society, then I suppose there is no problem if what is distributed is a redacted copy of the minutes (and is therefore not truly "the minutes"). If the bylaws or applicable law provide that the minutes must be available to any member of the society, however, then I don't think it is appropriate to redact any information unless the bylaws or applicable law so provide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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