Angie First

[Guest Angie]

If a motion was made at the previous meeting that is out of order how do you go about striking it from the minutes and making it invalid?

The motion was a motion that should have been made as an amendment to a previous motion and not made as a new motion.  There was already a ruling that covers the topic, they were just changing the scope.

Also this motion was not given on the agenda and is a topic that has been discussed and failed before.  The motion was brought to light when all members who oppose the motion were not in attendance and the members in attendance were new members who had not hear previous discussions on this topic.

What is the best way to proceed?

[Hieu H. Huynh]

What was the result of the vote on the new motion?

[George Mervosh]

15 minutes ago, Guest Angie said:

If a motion was made at the previous meeting that is out of order how do you go about striking it from the minutes and making it invalid?

I'll just address this part.  You don't.  The minutes are  record of what happened at the meeting, even if what happened might be a violation of the rules.

 

 

[Richard Brown]

I will add that if the new motion was adopted by the vote required to amend something previously adopted, it was nonetheless validly adopted and supersedes any contrary provisions in the earlier motion.

[Angie First]

The motion passed. 

I know I could have someone who was in attendance and voted yes ask for a reconsider but is there any other way to proceed?

[Hieu H. Huynh]

36 minutes ago, Angie First said:

The motion passed. 

I know I could have someone who was in attendance and voted yes ask for a reconsider...

It's likely too late now to make a motion to reconsider.

[Angie First]

Is rescinding the motion my only course then?

[Hieu H. Huynh]

Raise a point of order at the next meeting.

[Angie First]

What should my point of order pertain to specifically?

 

[Hieu H. Huynh]

That the new motion is in conflict with one previously adopted and was not adopted by the vote required to rescind or amend the previously adopted motion.

[George Mervosh]

1 minute ago, Hieu H. Huynh said:

That the new motion is in conflict with one previously adopted and was not adopted by the vote required to rescind or amend the previously adopted motion.

Do we know this is the case?

[Hieu H. Huynh]

It will be up to Angie First's organization to determine.

[George Mervosh]

7 minutes ago, Hieu H. Huynh said:

It will be up to Angie First's organization to determine.

Of course, I was just hoping she wasn't going to raise a point of order if she felt the vote required to amend the previous motion was achieved.  She never mentioned it in any postings.

[Richard Brown]

2 hours ago, Angie First said:

Is rescinding the motion my only course then?

I think rescinding (or amending) the newest motion is you best option unless you are confident the assembly will believe that the new motion was not adopted by the vote required to adopt a motion to amend something previously adopted if you raise a point of order and it is appealed.

I am troubled, however, by what I imagine was the chair's declaration that "The motion carries".  I know we have had several discussions in this forum about the different effects of a declaration by the chair based on a mistaken vote count vs a mistaken opinion as to what vote is in fact required.  It's sort of like "mistake of law" vs "mistake of fact".  I honestly don't remember the end result of those discussions, even though I know I should.  All I recall is that they made my head swim.

I also don't know how to determine, after the meeting has ended, whether the chair's pronouncement that "The  motion is adopted" was based on a mistaken count or on a mistake of the vote actually required (other than asking him, I suppose).

Edited to add:  This is one of the threads I was referring to.  It is over 60 comments and three pages long!  Have fun reading!  http://robertsrules.forumflash.com/index.php?/topic/25727-help-with-vote-count-error-after-meeting-closed/

Edited again to add:  I think the crux of that thread is that if the chair's ruling was based on a misunderstanding of the vote required (a two thirds vote), that is a rule of order that could be suspended and so a timely point of order must be raised at the time of the breach.  However, if the chair was mistaken in his actual vote count, it is subject to a point of order only so long as a recount is in order.  However, if the vote was anything other than a ballot vote or by the yeas and nays (roll call), as a practical matter, once the assembly moves on to other business, a "recount" is impossible and it is too late to raise a point of order.

Do I have that right?

 

Edited January 27, 2017 at 09:42 PM by Richard Brown
Added last two paragraphs

[Dan Honemann]

As so often happens, this discussion runs on and on without any idea as to the actual facts involved. Is it clear that the motion declared to have been adopted was a main motion that conflicted with a main motion previously adopted and still in force? We are told that:

"The motion was a motion that should have been made as an amendment to a previous motion and not made as a new motion.  There was already a ruling that covers the topic, they were just changing the scope."

I don't know what this means.

[Gary Novosielski]

8 hours ago, Angie First said:

The motion passed. 

I know I could have someone who was in attendance and voted yes ask for a reconsider but is there any other way to proceed?

Presumably that means that the motion was adopted, but I doubt that you could move to Reconsider, if the meeting has already been adjourned.  You can use the motion to Amend Something Previously Adopted.