Tina Marie Posted February 19, 2020 at 02:49 PM Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 at 02:49 PM At our last meeting, our Treasurer resigned due to health issues and with a heavy heart we accepted. We are a very small church group so to have someone step in is the best option as we have elections in May. The President is offering to step in. I am serving as VP and told her this is not acceptable and a conflict. Of course in the moment, do you think I can remember where in RR it says this is a conflict of interest?! The Secretary has agreed to step into this dual office (per our by-laws) but now I have the President upset and ready to resign... Can someone remind me where in Roberts Rules this is as our by-laws reference the use of Roberts Rules in a case like this. Thanks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted February 19, 2020 at 03:09 PM Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 at 03:09 PM There is no rule in RONR that would prohibit someone from holding two offices (while, of course, exercising only one vote), so your statement to the president was not accurate. There are certain combinations that are found to be more workable than others Secretary/Treasurer is a common combination. But it's not clear why any of this falls on your shoulders. People don't just "step into" offices, they are elected or appointed according to rules, usually contained in your bylaws. The decision is not typically left to the VP. Have you checked your bylaws to see if there are any rules regarding the filling of mid-term vacancies in office? Does your organization have a Board and a Membership? If so, how are the powers of the Board described? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina Marie Posted February 19, 2020 at 04:07 PM Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 at 04:07 PM 48 minutes ago, Gary Novosielski said: There is no rule in RONR that would prohibit someone from holding two offices (while, of course, exercising only one vote), so your statement to the president was not accurate. There are certain combinations that are found to be more workable than others Secretary/Treasurer is a common combination. But it's not clear why any of this falls on your shoulders. People don't just "step into" offices, they are elected or appointed according to rules, usually contained in your bylaws. The decision is not typically left to the VP. Have you checked your bylaws to see if there are any rules regarding the filling of mid-term vacancies in office? Does your organization have a Board and a Membership? If so, how are the powers of the Board described? My point to the President that she cannot assume or step into that role was correct then. Why does this "fall on my shoulders" because I am THE only one with knowledge of Roberts Rules and am the past president as well as a charter member. I also didn't make a decision per say but disagreed with the President that has no regard for our by-laws. Also our by-laws require two signatures on a check which can't be obtained if the President and Treasurer are the same person. As far as a mid term vacancy, the VP becomes the President and the offices of Sec/Tres are combined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted February 19, 2020 at 04:14 PM Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 at 04:14 PM 5 minutes ago, Tina Marie said: Also our by-laws require two signatures on a check which can't be obtained if the President and Treasurer are the same person Addressing only the point above, do your bylaws specifically require that those two signatures be those of the president and the treasurer? If not, couldn't someone else, such as the Secretary, be designated as the other signer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted February 19, 2020 at 04:17 PM Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 at 04:17 PM 9 minutes ago, Tina Marie said: My point to the President that she cannot assume or step into that role was correct then. Why does this "fall on my shoulders" because I am THE only one with knowledge of Roberts Rules and am the past president as well as a charter member. I also didn't make a decision per say but disagreed with the President that has no regard for our by-laws. Also our by-laws require two signatures on a check which can't be obtained if the President and Treasurer are the same person. As far as a mid term vacancy, the VP becomes the President and the offices of Sec/Tres are combined. If this is true why not just make sure this rule is followed without worrying about anything RONR says? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted February 19, 2020 at 04:18 PM Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 at 04:18 PM 8 minutes ago, Tina Marie said: As far as a mid term vacancy, the VP becomes the President and the offices of Sec/Tres are combined. Do your bylaws specifically say that there is only one such combined position, namely that of "Secretary/Treasurer"? Or do they say there shall be a Secretary and a Treasurer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina Marie Posted February 19, 2020 at 04:37 PM Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 at 04:37 PM 18 minutes ago, Richard Brown said: Do your bylaws specifically say that there is only one such combined position, namely that of "Secretary/Treasurer"? Or do they say there shall be a Secretary and a Treasurer? The bylaws state in the event we are not able to fill or there is a vacancy the office shall be combined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina Marie Posted February 19, 2020 at 04:39 PM Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 at 04:39 PM 20 minutes ago, George Mervosh said: If this is true why not just make sure this rule is followed without worrying about anything RONR says? I wanted to make sure I had not misspoke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina Marie Posted February 19, 2020 at 04:42 PM Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 at 04:42 PM 24 minutes ago, Richard Brown said: Addressing only the point above, do your bylaws specifically require that those two signatures be those of the president and the treasurer? If not, couldn't someone else, such as the Secretary, be designated as the other signer? Our bylaws do state as well as our credit union. The Secretary is not comfortable being a signer ( she has a brain injury that we are respecting and working with her) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina Marie Posted February 19, 2020 at 04:54 PM Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 at 04:54 PM But it's not clear why any of this falls on your shoulders. People don't just "step into" offices, they are elected or appointed according to rules, usually contained in your bylaws. The decision is not typically left to the VP. This statement still really bothers me. I am asking a question and for help because the members are looking to me for guidance. Also, I care about this group, there are many more issues going on than I can mention here. I can't just can't sit and watch the President do whatever she wants as long as I am the VP. As the one "next in line" and a member that pays dues I have a voice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted February 19, 2020 at 05:02 PM Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 at 05:02 PM 6 minutes ago, Tina Marie said: But it's not clear why any of this falls on your shoulders. People don't just "step into" offices, they are elected or appointed according to rules, usually contained in your bylaws. The decision is not typically left to the VP. This statement still really bothers me. I am asking a question and for help because the members are looking to me for guidance. Also, I care about this group, there are many more issues going on than I can mention here. I can't just can't sit and watch the President do whatever she wants as long as I am the VP. As the one "next in line" and a member that pays dues I have a voice. You can be assured that Mr. Novosielski's comments are not a personal attack in any way. You are right that any concerned member can, in a meeting, raise a point of order if the procedures in the bylaws or the adopted parliamentary authority are not being followed. Since you seem to have a rule addressing it, I'd suggest you do raise one if the rule is not followed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atul Kapur Posted February 19, 2020 at 05:17 PM Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 at 05:17 PM 2 hours ago, Tina Marie said: The President is offering to step in. I am serving as VP and told her this is not acceptable and a conflict. Of course in the moment, do you think I can remember where in RR it says this is a conflict of interest?! The Secretary has agreed to step into this dual office (per our by-laws) but now I have the President upset and ready to resign... Can someone remind me where in Roberts Rules this is as our by-laws reference the use of Roberts Rules in a case like this. 2 hours ago, Gary Novosielski said: There is no rule in RONR that would prohibit someone from holding two offices (while, of course, exercising only one vote), so your statement to the president was not accurate. 1 hour ago, Tina Marie said: My point to the President that she cannot assume or step into that role was correct then. There is nothing in RONR that supports what you told the President. So as far as whether it's according to RONR, it was incorrect. However, you have told us that your bylaws give the answer (vacancy in Treasurer position results in combining it with Secretary). So you don't need to refer to RONR at all in this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted February 20, 2020 at 12:38 AM Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 at 12:38 AM 8 hours ago, Tina Marie said: As far as a mid term vacancy, the VP becomes the President and the offices of Sec/Tres are combined. I'm sure you don't mean that the VP becomes President if the Treasurer resigns. But if your bylaws actually do say that the offices of Secretary and Treasurer are combined if one becomes vacant, then obviously that's what you do. I'm not at all confident that they actually say that, but that's up to your society to figure out. You were incorrect in what you told the president. The only correct response would be that you follow the bylaws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Katz Posted February 20, 2020 at 12:46 AM Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 at 12:46 AM 7 hours ago, Tina Marie said: This statement still really bothers me. I am asking a question and for help because the members are looking to me for guidance. Also, I care about this group, there are many more issues going on than I can mention here. I can't just can't sit and watch the President do whatever she wants as long as I am the VP. As the one "next in line" and a member that pays dues I have a voice. I take the comment to be based on a confusion, which I share: just how is this all happening, procedurally? There's a vacancy. Your rules don't allow people to just take over offices, and RONR doesn't either. So by what procedure does the President plan to take over this job? By fiat? By an election? By a motion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted February 20, 2020 at 08:53 PM Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 at 08:53 PM On 2/19/2020 at 11:54 AM, Tina Marie said: But it's not clear why any of this falls on your shoulders. People don't just "step into" offices, they are elected or appointed according to rules, usually contained in your bylaws. The decision is not typically left to the VP. This statement still really bothers me. I am asking a question and for help because the members are looking to me for guidance. Also, I care about this group, there are many more issues going on than I can mention here. I can't just can't sit and watch the President do whatever she wants as long as I am the VP. As the one "next in line" and a member that pays dues I have a voice. Of course you have a voice, as do all members, but certain matters (filling vacancies is one) usually require an action on the part of a board or the membership, in accordance with rules in your bylaws or your parliamentary authority. These rules often vary from one organization to another, which I was trying to determine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts