Chair is out of order

[Martina Brown]

During our last school board meeting, the Board Chair began discussing items in executive session that were not confidential. When this was brought to her attention, she said that she was chairing the meeting and we were going to talk about it. This is bound to happen during future meetings, as it has happened in the past but I waited until afterwards to remind her. According to Roberts Rules, how would I address this?

She is also in direct violation of the Freedom of Information Act.  No other members spoke up, nor do I expect them to speak up in the future or support any motions I make.  She has been doing this for 20 years and I am the only board member to question her.  

I contacted the attorney with the state school board’s association and he said he didn’t know what to do.  I do not want to be part of a meeting that is violating open meeting laws, but I also don’t want to leave the closed-door meeting and miss important information.  
Thank you for your time.  

[Richard Brown]

23 minutes ago, Martina Brown said:

During our last school board meeting, the Board Chair began discussing items in executive session that were not confidential. When this was brought to her attention, she said that she was chairing the meeting and we were going to talk about it. This is bound to happen during future meetings, as it has happened in the past but I waited until afterwards to remind her. According to Roberts Rules, how would I address this?  (Emphasis added)

She is also in direct violation of the Freedom of Information Act.  No other members spoke up, nor do I expect them to speak up in the future or support any motions I make.  She has been doing this for 20 years and I am the only board member to question her.  

I contacted the attorney with the state school board’s association and he said he didn’t know what to do.  I do not want to be part of a meeting that is violating open meeting laws, but I also don’t want to leave the closed-door meeting and miss important information.  
Thank you for your time.  

The next time she tries to take up an item that is not appropriate for an executive session,  make a point of order that the item being discussed should  be handled in open session rather than executive session.  If she rules your point of order not well taken, you can appeal her decision to the board.  The appeal requires a second and is subject to limited debate. It requires a majority vote to overturn her ruling.  Her ruling is sustained on a tie vote. 

An alternative is for you to move to end the executive session next time she does this.  The motion requires a second and a majority vote for adoption.

Edited to add:  See Section 24 in the 12th edition of RONR for how to handle an appeal  from the ruling of the chair. 

See Section 9:24 for information on going into and leaving an executive session.

Edited September 10, 2020 at 10:36 PM by Richard Brown
Added citations

[Gary Novosielski]

3 hours ago, Martina Brown said:

During our last school board meeting, the Board Chair began discussing items in executive session that were not confidential. When this was brought to her attention, she said that she was chairing the meeting and we were going to talk about it. This is bound to happen during future meetings, as it has happened in the past but I waited until afterwards to remind her. According to Roberts Rules, how would I address this?

She is also in direct violation of the Freedom of Information Act.  No other members spoke up, nor do I expect them to speak up in the future or support any motions I make.  She has been doing this for 20 years and I am the only board member to question her.  

I contacted the attorney with the state school board’s association and he said he didn’t know what to do.  I do not want to be part of a meeting that is violating open meeting laws, but I also don’t want to leave the closed-door meeting and miss important information.  
Thank you for your time.  

The attorney should have known what to do.

• You object to the discussion on the grounds that it violates the Sunshine Laws.
• The chair dismisses your objection.
• You demand that your objection be noted in the minutes.  You can then remain in the meeting.
• The chair doesn't comply
• You raise a point of order that your objection must be noted as protection against legal liability.
• The chair rules your point not well taken. 
• You appeal (if you can get someone to second).
• You probably lose the appeal. 
• When the minutes of executive session are being approved, you check to ensure that your objectition or your point of order is recorded, identifying you as the person who objected.  If it is not, you insist on a correction to include the point of order and ruling, mentioning you by name.  This should protect you in the event that punishment for ethics violations are forthcoming in the future.  RONR requires all points of order to be recorded in the minutes.

If this still doesn't work, you may have to look up your equivalent of an Ethics Commission to see what further remedies you have.  

I am not a lawyer, and the above is not legal advice, but it is what that lawyer should have told you.

Edited September 11, 2020 at 01:31 AM by Gary Novosielski

[Rob Elsman]

Report the matter to your state's attorney general.

[Guest Al Dunbar]

Just a minor nit pick, it was not the chair that was out of order, but the specific action of the chair.

[Atul Kapur]

I was hoping the 12th edition was going to expand Form and Example to include that other famous Al: "You're out of order! You're out of order! The whole trial is out of order! They're out of order!"

[Gary Novosielski]

17 hours ago, Atul Kapur said:

I was hoping the 12th edition was going to expand Form and Example to include that other famous Al: "You're out of order! You're out of order! The whole trial is out of order! They're out of order!"

My sources tell me that it was considered, but ultimately rejected on the grounds that we can't handle the truth.