Amend Something Previously Adopted on Agenda

[Wild Dunes]

We have a Rules & Regulations document which the Board has the authority to make changes to. Our Board meets monthly and produces an agenda for that meeting, including New Business items, among other items (approval of agenda and prior meeting minutes, Unfinished Business, Treasurer’s Report, Other Business, etc.). I understand from previous discussions that an agenda is not needed, but for now, that’s the way our Board is operating.

Under New Business, the Board recently voted to approve and update an amenity as to charge + tax. It was later found that the tax rate that was used was wrong. We now need to correct that amendment. At the same time, we want to eliminate the specificity with the tax in our document. Rather than writing the cost as $XX.XX + $X.XX tax eff [date], we would like to record as $XX.XX + current tax rate.

I understand RONR §35 (and other) to say that we can Amend Something Previously Adopted. My question pertains to the Agenda. As previously mentioned, we produce an agenda for our monthly meeting. The original item was adopted under a New Business item #. How would we introduce this Amend Something Previously Adopted? Do we list it under New Business with the original item # or do we list it under New Business with a new # but referencing the original item #?

[Atul Kapur]

I suggest the latter.

[Richard Brown]

On 11/16/2022 at 6:08 AM, Atul Kapur said:

I suggest the latter.

I agree with Dr. Kapur.

[Dan Honemann]

The trouble with this is that listing a specific item of business on an agenda makes it either a general order or a special order and not new business.  It probably doesn't make much difference as a practical matter, but it demonstrates a basic misunderstanding of the rules. 

 

[Wild Dunes]

Thank you all for your responses. I do understand, and have commented on in prior postings, the issues our board has with the rules. We are working on it.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 11/16/2022 at 6:30 AM, Wild Dunes said:

We have a Rules & Regulations document which the Board has the authority to make changes to. Our Board meets monthly and produces an agenda for that meeting, including New Business items, among other items (approval of agenda and prior meeting minutes, Unfinished Business, Treasurer’s Report, Other Business, etc.). I understand from previous discussions that an agenda is not needed, but for now, that’s the way our Board is operating.

Under New Business, the Board recently voted to approve and update an amenity as to charge + tax. It was later found that the tax rate that was used was wrong. We now need to correct that amendment. At the same time, we want to eliminate the specificity with the tax in our document. Rather than writing the cost as $XX.XX + $X.XX tax eff [date], we would like to record as $XX.XX + current tax rate.

I understand RONR §35 (and other) to say that we can Amend Something Previously Adopted. My question pertains to the Agenda. As previously mentioned, we produce an agenda for our monthly meeting. The original item was adopted under a New Business item #. How would we introduce this Amend Something Previously Adopted? Do we list it under New Business with the original item # or do we list it under New Business with a new # but referencing the original item #?

Agenda business items normally are General Orders, and so would be best included under the heading Unfinished Business and General Orders, which you don't don't seem to have.  So your agenda may be somewhat nonstandard.  However, some organizations list specific items under New Business which are expected to be moved, although it's not required by any rule.

RONR does not make any mention of item numbers, but if you are repealing a particular decision that had an item number, it would make sense to refer to it by number in the motion to repeal.

[Wild Dunes]

On 11/16/2022 at 11:28 PM, Gary Novosielski said:

Agenda business items normally are General Orders, and so would be best included under the heading Unfinished Business and General Orders, which you don't don't seem to have.  So your agenda may be somewhat nonstandard.  However, some organizations list specific items under New Business which are expected to be moved, although it's not required by any rule.

RONR does not make any mention of item numbers, but if you are repealing a particular decision that had an item number, it would make sense to refer to it by number in the motion to repeal.

Yes, we are somewhat nonstandard. We do have Unfinished Business as an agenda item. If the item I am inquiring about was New Business when adopted, would we then put it under Unfinished Business to Amend?

[Atul Kapur]

No

[Josh Martin]

On 11/17/2022 at 10:53 PM, Wild Dunes said:

Yes, we are somewhat nonstandard. We do have Unfinished Business as an agenda item. If the item I am inquiring about was New Business when adopted, would we then put it under Unfinished Business to Amend?

No. Unfinished Business includes only the following items:

"a) The question that was pending when the previous meeting adjourned, if that meeting adjourned while a question other than a special order was pending.
b) Any questions that were unfinished business at the previous meeting but were not reached before it adjourned—taken in the order in which they were due to come up at that meeting as indicated under (a) and (c).
c) Any questions which, by postponement or otherwise, were set as general orders for the previous meeting, or for a particular hour during that meeting, but were not reached before it adjourned—taken in the order in which the general orders were made." RONR (12th ed.) 41:23

As has been previously noted, however, the full name of this heading in RONR is "Unfinished Business and General Orders," and "General Orders" includes the following:

"d) Matters that were postponed to, or otherwise made general orders for, the present meeting—taken in the order in which they were made." RONR (12th ed.) 41:23

As previously noted, if an item is placed on an agenda, it becomes either a general order or a special order.

The heading New Business, strictly speaking, should not have anything listed under it, because that heading is for items which are raised spontaneously when New Business arrives. By placing an item on the agenda, it becomes a special order or general order.

But don't not worry, it's not just your organization - based upon experience on this forum and working with organizations out in the world, I can assure you 99% of organizations are very confused on these points.

[Shmuel Gerber]

On 11/18/2022 at 7:15 AM, Josh Martin said:

But don't not worry, it's not just your organization - based upon experience on this forum and working with organizations out in the world, I can assure you 99% of organizations are very confused on these points.

But if the agenda is simply provided in advance of a meeting for information, with no intention of adopting it, then it would make perfect sense to list any known items of new business under the category of New Business. 

[Wild Dunes]

On 11/20/2022 at 11:10 AM, Shmuel Gerber said:

But if the agenda is simply provided in advance of a meeting for information, with no intention of adopting it, then it would make perfect sense to list any known items of new business under the category of New Business. 

The agenda is posted in advance for all homeowners to see and board members receive the agenda + any supporting documents in advance to allow them to study the issues. Items of New Business are listed.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 11/17/2022 at 11:53 PM, Wild Dunes said:

If the item I am inquiring about was New Business when adopted, would we then put it under Unfinished Business to Amend?

No, once it was adopted it was "finished".