Motion postponed - maker will not be present for subsequent meeting

[Jonathan Glisson]

I have a series of questions about a very particular thing that has happened in my organization. Here's the basic timeline:

1. Motion A was proposed by Person A and then was seconded and brought to the floor for discussion.

2. There was unexpected disagreement about the motion, leading to:

3. Motion B was proposed by Person B to postpone Motion A until the subsequent (quarterly) meeting so that members could discuss and think about Motion A for a few months.

4. Motion B was approved by vote.

I'm trying to figure out a few things:

• Person A is not going to be present at the next meeting. Does this have any ramifications for Motion A and how it is handled in the next meeting?
• Is Person A capable of withdrawing the motion in absentia in writing or otherwise given that the motion was not fully addressed within the meeting in which it was originally presented? There's a chance Person A will be in opposition to the original motion after thinking it through over the next few months but will likely not be present (and may not actually be a member of the organization at all anymore) due to personal circumstances that are unrelated to the organization.
• Is the only other option aside from Person A withdrawing the motion to bring it to vote in our next meeting? Some of the people in the organization are trying to find a way to come to an agreement on how to proceed with a broad consensus of the members outside of the meetings and NOT bring it to a vote in the meeting if possible.

[Dan Honemann]

On 6/19/2024 at 11:02 AM, Jonathan Glisson said:

I have a series of questions about a very particular thing that has happened in my organization. Here's the basic timeline:

1. Motion A was proposed by Person A and then was seconded and brought to the floor for discussion.

2. There was unexpected disagreement about the motion, leading to:

3. Motion B was proposed by Person B to postpone Motion A until the subsequent (quarterly) meeting so that members could discuss and think about Motion A for a few months.

4. Motion B was approved by vote.

I'm trying to figure out a few things:

• Person A is not going to be present at the next meeting. Does this have any ramifications for Motion A and how it is handled in the next meeting?

No.

On 6/19/2024 at 11:02 AM, Jonathan Glisson said:

Is Person A capable of withdrawing the motion in absentia in writing or otherwise given that the motion was not fully addressed within the meeting in which it was originally presented?

No.

On 6/19/2024 at 11:02 AM, Jonathan Glisson said:

Is the only other option aside from Person A withdrawing the motion to bring it to vote in our next meeting? Some of the people in the organization are trying to find a way to come to an agreement on how to proceed with a broad consensus of the members outside of the meetings and NOT bring it to a vote in the meeting if possible.

Sure. When the motion comes up at your next meeting, it may be postponed indefinitely, referred to a committee, or postponed to your next quarterly meeting.

[Richard Brown]

On 6/19/2024 at 10:02 AM, Jonathan Glisson said:

Person A is not going to be present at the next meeting. Does this have any ramifications for Motion A and how it is handled in the next meeting?

Yes, it does. If member A is present at the meeting, he may make a request or motion to withdraw the motion. However, a member must be present in order to make such a request or motion. If member A is not present, he cannot make a request or a motion.  

 

On 6/19/2024 at 10:02 AM, Jonathan Glisson said:

Is Person A capable of withdrawing the motion in absentia in writing or otherwise given that the motion was not fully addressed within the meeting in which it was originally presented?

No, he cannot withdraw the motion in absentia. He must be present in order to withdraw his motion. Once a motion has been stated by the chair it becomes the property of the assembly, and is no longer under the control of the member who made the motion.

On 6/19/2024 at 10:02 AM, Jonathan Glisson said:

Is the only other option aside from Person A withdrawing the motion to bring it to vote in our next meeting?

No, the assembly has another option and it is the one I would recommend. Any member may move to postpone indefinitely the motion which was originally made by member A. The member who makes the motion postpone indefinitely, or any other member, may state that it is being done at the request of member A. The assembly can also grant a request that a note from member A be read to the assembly, or it can be done by unanimous consent if no one objects. Postponing a motion definitely “kills” the motion without taking a direct up or down vote on the motion itself. In fact, if no one objects, the motion to postpone indefinitely can be adopted without objection. 

A Note: motion which has been postponed indefinitely, just like a motion which has been defeated, can be renewed (made again) at any future session

Edited to add: my answer above regarding postponing indefinitely, was based on the assumption that the intent is to “get rid of” the motion without considering it further. However, as Mr. Honemann stated in his answer above, if the assembly wishes to consider or “think about“ the motion some more, it may also adopt a motion to postpone the motion again or or to refer it to a committee.

 

Edited June 19, 2024 at 03:44 PM by Richard Brown
Added last paragraph

[Shmuel Gerber]

On 6/19/2024 at 11:37 AM, Richard Brown said:

On 6/19/2024 at 11:02 AM, Jonathan Glisson said:

Is Person A capable of withdrawing the motion in absentia in writing or otherwise given that the motion was not fully addressed within the meeting in which it was originally presented?

Expand  

No, he cannot withdraw the motion in absentia. He must be present in order to withdraw his motion. Once a motion has been stated by the chair it becomes the property of the assembly, and is no longer under the control of the member who made the motion.

Why couldn't the assembly adopt a motion to grant a written request that the motion be withdrawn, in the same way that it can accept a written request to be excused from a duty (also known as a resignation)? 

[Weldon Merritt]

On 6/19/2024 at 11:14 AM, Shmuel Gerber said:

Why couldn't the assembly adopt a motion to grant a written request that the motion be withdrawn, in the same way that it can accept a written request to be excused from a duty (also known as a resignation)? 

They could. But the motion to grant the request would have to be made by a member who is present at the meeting. I suppose a motion to grant the request could be assumed by the chair, but I would not recommend it. It would be better for the motion to come from a member.

[Jonathan Glisson]

On 6/19/2024 at 12:15 PM, Weldon Merritt said:

They could. But the motion to grant the request would have to be made by a member who is present at the meeting. I suppose a motion to grant the request could be assumed by the chair, but I would not recommend it. It would be better for the motion to come from a member.

Am I correct in assuming that the motion to grant the request would need a second and then a majority vote?

[Richard Brown]

On 6/19/2024 at 12:38 PM, Jonathan Glisson said:

Am I correct in assuming that the motion to grant the request would need a second and then a majority vote?

Yes, the motion would have to be seconded, but it could then be adopted by unanimous consent if there is no objection. If there is an objection, it would then require a majority vote.

[Dan Honemann]

On 6/19/2024 at 12:14 PM, Shmuel Gerber said:

Why couldn't the assembly adopt a motion to grant a written request that the motion be withdrawn, in the same way that it can accept a written request to be excused from a duty (also known as a resignation)? 

RONR specifically permits resignations to be submitted in writing, and clearly contemplates their being acted upon in the absence of the member submitting it.  Nothing of this sort is mentioned with respect to requests to withdraw a motion, and I'm inclined to believe that a member must be present in person in order to submit such a request.

[Weldon Merritt]

On 6/19/2024 at 12:38 PM, Jonathan Glisson said:

Am I correct in assuming that the motion to grant the request would need a second and then a majority vote?

Yes. Although if it is not seconded,. but the chair states it anyway and debate begins or a vote is taken. the lack of a second becomes irrelevant. But it always requires a majority vote (or unanimous consent, which also satisfies the majority vote requirement).

[Rob Elsman]

On 6/19/2024 at 11:14 AM, Shmuel Gerber said:

Why couldn't the assembly adopt a motion to grant a written request that the motion be withdrawn

 

On 6/19/2024 at 3:37 PM, Weldon Merritt said:

Yes. Although if it is not seconded,. but the chair states it anyway and debate begins or a vote is taken. the lack of a second becomes irrelevant.

In the case of the withdrawal of a motion, if the maker of the request is not the maker of the motion proposed to be withdrawn, the second is essential, since the assent of the maker of the motion proposed to be withdrawn is required.  No assent; no withdrawal.

[Dan Honemann]

If a member other than the one making a request to withdraw a motion makes the motion to grant it, this motion does not require a second, "since the maker of the motion to grant permission and the maker of the request surely both favor it" (33:15).

If the maker of a motion that has been postponed is not present at the meeting at which the motion comes up again, there can be no request to withdraw it.

[J. J.]

On 6/21/2024 at 1:24 PM, Dan Honemann said:

If a member other than the one making a request to withdraw a motion makes the motion to grant it, this motion does not require a second, "since the maker of the motion to grant permission and the maker of the request surely both favor it" (33:15).

If the maker of a motion that has been postponed is not present at the meeting at which the motion comes up again, there can be no request to withdraw it.

On the written request, could the rules be suspended to permit a written request from the mover to be entertained?  I would not call it an absentee rights question, if the mover has consented in writing. 

[Dan Honemann]

On 6/24/2024 at 9:45 AM, J. J. said:

On the written request, could the rules be suspended to permit a written request from the mover to be entertained?  I would not call it an absentee rights question, if the mover has consented in writing. 

Sure, lots of things can be done under a suspension of the rules.  A motion could be made "to suspend the rules which interfere with treating the pending main motion as if it were withdrawn."

[J. J.]

On 6/19/2024 at 11:02 AM, Jonathan Glisson said:

Is Person A capable of withdrawing the motion in absentia in writing or otherwise given that the motion was not fully addressed within the meeting in which it was originally presented?

That is from the original post.  There seems to be some reason, within the society, for Person A to be the one technically withdrawing the motion.  Suspending the rules to permit the written request to withdraw the motion to be entertained seems to satisfy that. 

Mr. Glisson should be aware that to suspend the rules, a 2/3 vote is needed. 

[Jonathan Glisson]

On 6/24/2024 at 9:11 AM, J. J. said:

That is from the original post.  There seems to be some reason, within the society, for Person A to be the one technically withdrawing the motion.  Suspending the rules to permit the written request to withdraw the motion to be entertained seems to satisfy that. 

Mr. Glisson should be aware that to suspend the rules, a 2/3 vote is needed. 

Thank you! I will keep that in mind.

And thank you to everyone for your thoughtful responses! I feel much more confident that we will be able to approach this appropriately at the next meeting. 

[Gary Novosielski]

On 6/24/2024 at 10:00 AM, Dan Honemann said:

Sure, lots of things can be done under a suspension of the rules.  A motion could be made "to suspend the rules which interfere with treating the pending main motion as if it were withdrawn."

Oooh, nice.