Nikki Posted May 11, 2016 at 01:34 AM Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 at 01:34 AM I live in an older HOA community that had only 3 bylaws and about 10 covenants. The Board is in the process of trying to amend the bylaws by adding in quite a few more. They are not considering the ideas put forth by some of the homeowners. Is this allowed? Can the Board write the bylaws without input from the homeowners? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hieu H. Huynh Posted May 11, 2016 at 01:37 AM Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 at 01:37 AM Do your bylaws give the board the power to amend the bylaws? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikki Posted May 11, 2016 at 01:40 AM Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 at 01:40 AM no. The bylaws determine who is a member of the HOA and that they have a right to vote. That's about it. s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikki Posted May 11, 2016 at 01:59 AM Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 at 01:59 AM So what do you recommend that we do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Katz Posted May 11, 2016 at 02:00 AM Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 at 02:00 AM What are your bylaw amendment procedures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hieu H. Huynh Posted May 11, 2016 at 02:27 AM Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 at 02:27 AM 27 minutes ago, Nikki said: So what do you recommend that we do? Perhaps the board members could be disciplined for exceeding their authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 11, 2016 at 04:01 AM Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 at 04:01 AM There are no bylaw amendment procedures written into the bylaws. There are no voting rules written into the bylaws. We have only 3 bylaws in the whole document. They basically have been operating just as they wanted. Now the board has decided to write new bylaws and they are the ones writing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikki Posted May 11, 2016 at 04:03 AM Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 at 04:03 AM There are no bylaw amendment procedures written into the bylaws. There are no voting rules written into the bylaws. We have only 3 bylaws in the whole document. They basically have been operating just as they wanted. Now the board has decided to write new bylaws and they are the ones writing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hieu H. Huynh Posted May 11, 2016 at 04:12 AM Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 at 04:12 AM How did the board members get elected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Katz Posted May 11, 2016 at 11:17 AM Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 at 11:17 AM If you have no other procedures, and RONR is your parliamentary authority, then the procedure for bylaw amendment would be as described in RONR, and the board has no role in the process, unless there are laws in your jurisdiction allowing the board to modify the bylaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted May 11, 2016 at 12:12 PM Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 at 12:12 PM 8 hours ago, Nikki said: There are no bylaw amendment procedures written into the bylaws. There are no voting rules written into the bylaws. We have only 3 bylaws in the whole document. Check the text of those ten "covenants". They may well be bylaws in effect and have further rules governing how your HOA is run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikki Posted May 12, 2016 at 01:06 AM Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 at 01:06 AM The Board members were elected last year at annual meeting. We do not have any bylaws so to speak. There is no parliamentary procedure identified in the bylaws. They are making up rules as they go along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted May 12, 2016 at 01:37 AM Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 at 01:37 AM Nikki, I find it almost inconceivable that a Homeowners Association doesn't have a rather thorough set of bylaws or some sort of similar rules to govern it. It might be a separate constitution. They might be in the Covenants that you mentioned. They might be elsewhere in the land records. They might be in articles of incorporation or some sort of charter issued by the state. It might be that state law spells out most of the major items that would normally be in bylaws. California, for example, has extensive statutes dealing with homeowner associations. I bet if you keep searching and asking knowledgeable people you will find them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikki Posted May 12, 2016 at 01:52 AM Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 at 01:52 AM I agree that it is inconceivable that there aren't a set of bylaws. There was only 1 page attached to our deed when we bought the property. It contained 3 bylaws and the rest were CC&R's. The people who have been there a while do not know of any bylaws. There aren't any articles of incorporation that we know of. NC passed a law in 1999 The Planned Community Act, but all the provisions don't automatically apply to older subdivisions. We have a rogue board who has taken over and are making up the rules as they go. What is so unfortunate is that most of the homeowners are just going along with them; and the others we can't seem to make them understand what is happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted May 12, 2016 at 02:00 AM Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 at 02:00 AM Has anybody searched the land records for something resembling bylaws? You might consider hiring an attorney or an abstractor to do a "title search" for the period of time around when the development was created looking specifically for any documents that look like or contain bylaws, a constitution, rules, covenants, etc. And check with the state agency.... usually the Secretary of State... that corporations, real estate developments, homeowner associations, condominium developments etc file similar documents with. Try to find out who the developers were and check with them. Find the law firm that handled the development and check with them. I still bet there is something somewhere. btw, you say there are only "3 bylaws". Briefly and generally, what do those three bylaws say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikki Posted May 12, 2016 at 08:43 PM Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 at 08:43 PM The 3 bylaws are each lot owner is a member of the association and is entitled to vote if they are paid up on dues and assessments. Identifies the fiscal year and dues amounts and when they are due. President and Secretary/Treasurer are the officers and terms are 2 yrs with option for reelection. these are followed by 15 CC &R's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted May 12, 2016 at 09:28 PM Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 at 09:28 PM 44 minutes ago, Nikki said: The 3 bylaws are each lot owner is a member of the association and is entitled to vote if they are paid up on dues and assessments. Identifies the fiscal year and dues amounts and when they are due. President and Secretary/Treasurer are the officers and terms are 2 yrs with option for reelection. these are followed by 15 CC &R's. Then where did this "board" come from, if there's only a President and Secretary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikki Posted May 12, 2016 at 11:04 PM Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 at 11:04 PM Long story....the president and secretary/treasurer (husband and wife team) left the area after about 15 years of being President and secretary/treasurer. So some members called an emergency meeting to elect new officers and try to pass new bylaws. My husband and I and 2 other couples attended the meeting and protested the voting procedures with not enough homeowners being present. They conceded to elect temporary officers until the "official" annual meeting. At annual meeting they wanted to let those temporary officers continue on until the next year. They told us this coming year they would be working on new bylaws and would present them to the homeowners at the annual meeting for a vote. They recently sent out the proposed changes to the homeowners and asked for input or more suggestions and they only used the suggestions that they liked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted May 12, 2016 at 11:52 PM Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 at 11:52 PM 45 minutes ago, Nikki said: They told us this coming year they would be working on new bylaws and would present them to the homeowners at the annual meeting for a vote. They recently sent out the proposed changes to the homeowners and asked for input or more suggestions and they only used the suggestions that they liked. The people drafting bylaws and bylaws committees tend to work that way. But, the entire membership should have to vote to adopt the bylaws and be able to make amendments.... and some members might even be able to propose their own set of bylaws. It is not a "take it or leave it situation". Don't give up. Stay vigilant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikki Posted May 13, 2016 at 01:34 AM Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 at 01:34 AM Long story....the president and secretary/treasurer (husband and wife team) left the area after about 15 years of being President and secretary/treasurer. So some members called an emergency meeting to elect new officers and try to pass new bylaws. My husband and I and 2 other couples attended the meeting and protested the voting procedures with not enough homeowners being present. They conceded to elect temporary officers until the "official" annual meeting. At annual meeting they wanted to let those temporary officers continue on until the next year. They told us this coming year they would be working on new bylaws and would present them to the homeowners at the annual meeting for a vote. They recently sent out the proposed changes to the homeowners and asked for input or more suggestions and they only used the suggestions that they liked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted May 15, 2016 at 07:55 PM Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 at 07:55 PM I'm still wondering where the "board" came from. If there is no mention of a board in the bylaws, then there is no board. A "group of people" can't just get together and call themselves a board. All the drama over new bylaws is interesting, but the proposed bylaws don't mean anything unless and until they're adopted by the membership. The board would ordinarily have no role in the process--especially true if the board does not, in fact, exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted May 15, 2016 at 08:43 PM Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 at 08:43 PM I agree with Gary and have been wondering the same thing.. and about a lot of other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest calbear77 Posted May 16, 2016 at 06:43 AM Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 at 06:43 AM Perhaps Nikki is just referring to the grouping of the president, secretary, and treasurer as the "board" even though they are not formally organized into a body with any powers. If this is the case, anyone has as much right to form their own "bylaw writing group" and propose a set of amendments/revisions to the membership. I still say go consult with an attorney, because HOA are usually far more legally complicated than they appear at first glance. This forum is probably not the best venue as your association hasn't even adopted Robert's Rules as the parliamentary authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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