procedural rule in bylaws

[Leo]

If the bylaws require a vote by ballot the rule cannot be suspended.

If the bylaws require their be a separate ballot for each office, would that be in the nature of a rule of order that could be suspended to allow for all offices on one ballot/

[Rob Elsman]

In my own opinion, the answer is no. It seems to me that the society would include such a requirement in the bylaws with the specific intent that the requirement not be suspended.

[Atul Kapur]

As you note, Bylaws can be suspended if they are in the nature of Rules of Order. That is, rules that pertain to the orderly conduct of business within the context of a meeting.

In my opinion, the rule that each office requires a separate ballot is in the nature of a Rule of Order and can be suspended.

[Gary Novosielski]

17 hours ago, Leo said:

If the bylaws require a vote by ballot the rule cannot be suspended.

That's true for an election of officers, but not, I believe, in general.

[Richard Brown]

18 hours ago, Leo said:

If the bylaws require a vote by ballot the rule cannot be suspended.

 

49 minutes ago, Gary Novosielski said:

That's true for an election of officers, but not, I believe, in general.

I don't where the requirement in the bylaws of a ballot vote can ever be suspended.  The rule on page 412 at line 24 seems pretty clear:  "When the bylaws require a vote to be taken by ballot, this requirement cannot be suspended, even by a unanimous vote"

Gary, are you aware of an exception somewhere that I am overlooking?

Edited to add:  Perhaps you are thinking of permitting an election by plurality rather than by majority vote as described on page 405 at lines 2-13?  It provides that a plurality cannot elect officers unless so provided in the bylaws.

Edited October 20, 2019 at 10:38 PM by Richard Brown
Added last paragraph

[Richard Brown]

18 hours ago, Leo said:

If the bylaws require their be a separate ballot for each office, would that be in the nature of a rule of order that could be suspended to allow for all offices on one ballot/

 

6 hours ago, Atul Kapur said:

As you note, Bylaws can be suspended if they are in the nature of Rules of Order. That is, rules that pertain to the orderly conduct of business within the context of a meeting.

In my opinion, the rule that each office requires a separate ballot is in the nature of a Rule of Order and can be suspended.

It's a very good question.  I am inclined to agree with Dr. Kapur.  I think it is i the nature of a rule of order and may be suspended.  This might ultimately be q question of bylaws interpretation which only the membership can make on an appeal after a ruling by the chair.

[jstackpo]

A shortcut way of thinking (I like shortcut thinking) is to boil down RONR to say:

Bylaws tell "what?"; Rules tell "how?".  And you can suspend the rules.

"Ballot vote" is a what; how you deploy those ballots (separate or all at once) is, well, a how.

[Gary Novosielski]

21 hours ago, jstackpo said:

A shortcut way of thinking (I like shortcut thinking) is to boil down RONR to say:

Bylaws tell "what?"; Rules tell "how?".  And you can suspend the rules.

"Ballot vote" is a what; how you deploy those ballots (separate or all at once) is, well, a how.

i dunno.  Ballot vote seems like pretty much of a "how" to me.

[Gary Novosielski]

22 hours ago, Richard Brown said:

I don't where the requirement in the bylaws of a ballot vote can ever be suspended.  The rule on page 412 at line 24 seems pretty clear:  "When the bylaws require a vote to be taken by ballot, this requirement cannot be suspended, even by a unanimous vote"

No, you're quite right.  I even had it highlighted in my copy, apparently because I couldn't get it through my head on a prior occasion.

[Guest Zev]

I was under the impression that the original question was not how to suspend the election by ballot but rather how to have one single ballot instead of say five ballots for the election of five officers. If the bylaws prescribe a ballot, I do not see a violation if the assembly chooses one ballot or multiple ballots. After all, they are still conducting the election by ballot, right?

[Chris Harrison]

My original thoughts are that there wouldn't be any harm in consolidating all the elections into a single ballot.  However, I do wonder how pp. 274-275 ( MOTIONS THAT MUST BE DIVIDED ON DEMAND) might factor into this?

[Josh Martin]

40 minutes ago, Chris Harrison said:

My original thoughts are that there wouldn't be any harm in consolidating all the elections into a single ballot.  However, I do wonder how pp. 274-275 ( MOTIONS THAT MUST BE  DIVIDED ON DEMAND) might factor into this?

I don’t think it has anything to do with it. The (assumed) motions to elect are already divided, and members are free to vote on each question as they see fit. They are just placed on the same ballot.

On 10/19/2019 at 11:19 PM, Leo said:

If the bylaws require a vote by ballot the rule cannot be suspended.

If the bylaws require their be a separate ballot for each office, would that be in the nature of a rule of order that could be suspended to allow for all offices on one ballot/

The rule is certainly in the nature of a rule of order, and I believe the rule could be suspended to permit all the positions to be included on one ballot.