Chair continuously saying our of order

[Jay M]

In our board meeting  first  item came up to approve the agenda.  There was a draft agenda  first sent by secretary earlier 5 days ago. But 3 days ago Some of the board members asked secretary to add 3 more items. Majority of the board members were under the impression that the agenda includes all the items including items sent by trustees 3 days ago. but the chair (President) said the agenda includes only  first draft agenda which was sent 5 days ago  and does not include the items sent 3 days ago. The items sent 3 days ago were needed an advance notice otherwise they need 2/3  votes to approve the motion. President did not want them on agenda . He did not consider they were part of agenda.

He persistently declared out of order when members tried to talk. he called security to remove on of the board members when  he said that the  president's order is out of order. He canceled the meeting and left . what are the remedies available in future if it happens again?

Thanks

 

[George Mervosh]

1) The proper method to try and overturn a ruling of the chair is to make an appeal.  See §24 in RONR.

2) The President cannot cancel a meeting.  The vice president, if there is one, should have taken over the meeting and presided over the remaining matters as long as a quorum was present.  If there is no VP, the assembly would elect someone to preside.

3) See FAQ#20 elsewhere on this site regarding removal of an officer.  There are also ways to simply remove him from presiding over the current meeting. Yours seems like a good candidate considering his actions.

 

Edited July 24, 2023 at 08:50 PM by George Mervosh

[Jay M]

Thanks George

[Drake Savory]

What happened when the Chair presented the agenda for adoption?  Did anyone try to amend them?

[Jay M]

On 7/25/2023 at 2:12 PM, Drake Savory said:

What happened when the Chair presented the agenda for adoption?  Did anyone try to amend them?

The board members try to change the order of agenda items. Chair said out of order the member challenged the out of order again chair said " you are out of order" and called security to take him out. After lot of commotion meeting ended with out any discussion on any item no meeting took place. 

[Josh Martin]

On 7/25/2023 at 2:52 PM, Jay M said:

The board members try to change the order of agenda items. Chair said out of order the member challenged the out of order again chair said " you are out of order" and called security to take him out. After lot of commotion meeting ended with out any discussion on any item no meeting took place. 

In what manner did the member "challenge" the chair's ruling in this regard? By raising an appeal from the decision of the chair?

The chair seems to have overreacted in any event, and I concur with Mr. Mervosh that getting a new chair seems like the best course of action, but I would note that the only proper means to challenge a ruling of the chair is to move to appeal from the ruling.

[Gary Novosielski]

24:2
Members have no right to criticize a ruling of the chair
unless they appeal from his decision.[RONR (12th ed.) §]

But they definitely do have the right to Appeal . [RONR (12th ed.) §24]  It would not surprise me if this chair has never even heard of this motion, let alone know how to handle it, so a bit of education will be required.

But the biggest favor an out-of-control chair can do is to storm out of the meeting.  If that happens, everyone else should take a deep breath and remain seated.   After the door slams, the VP should say something like: The next order of business is....  If there is no VP, just do a quick little election to pick, or just agree upon, a chair pro tem.

And don't worry if the chair shouted This meeting is adjourned! on the way out--not even if he banged a gavel (or a shoe).   A chair doesn't have the power cut a meeting short without a vote, except if there's actually no more business that anyone wants to consider, or if the drapes or other items are on fire.

[Rob Elsman]

Are you suggesting that the chair set the drapes on fire to enable him to adjourn the meeting without a vote? 🤣

[Jay M]

when can president call For Security? I believe not for just arguing on point of order. How do we stop physically lifting the trustees from the meeting 

 

[Atul Kapur]

The presiding officer does not have the authority, on their own, to remove a member from a meeting.

"Although the chair has no authority to impose a penalty or to order the offending member removed from the hall, the assembly has that power." RONR (12th ed.) 61:13

This is in the section "Breaches of Order by Members in a Meeting" beginning at 61:10

[Jay M]

Thanks Atul

 

[Gary Novosielski]

On 7/26/2023 at 12:41 PM, Rob Elsman said:

Are you suggesting that the chair set the drapes on fire to enable him to adjourn the meeting without a vote? 🤣

It would be a violation of décor, if not decorum, but though not in order, it would have the effect of an affirmative vote on adjournment.  (Don't show this to J.J. 😁)

Edited July 26, 2023 at 08:04 PM by Gary Novosielski