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Nope. There is no rule in RONR (I have seen it is some Convention Special Rules) giving the maker of a motion the right to speak last.

I got that from here: http://www.rulesonline.com/rror-07.htm

In (42) "Debate"

30. The member upon whose motion the subject was brought before the assembly, is entitled to close the debate with a speech, if he has not previously exhausted his twenty minutes, but not until every one else wishing to speak has spoken.

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The new study guide is available (as a download) by clicking the "NAP Membership Study Guide" link in the next-to-last paragraph on this page:  << http://www.parliamentarians.org/applyjoin/applications/ >>>

 

You will need a copy of RONRIB  (get that here)  to study with the guide.  I have no idea what the actual test will look like.

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I got that from here: http://www.rulesonline.com/rror-07.htm

In (42) "Debate"

30. The member upon whose motion the subject was brought before the assembly, is entitled to close the debate with a speech, if he has not previously exhausted his twenty minutes, but not until every one else wishing to speak has spoken.

You are looking at the 100 year old 4th edition, which was published in 1915.  The copyright has expired and it is the only version online as it is "in the public  domain".

 

We are not now in the 2011 11th edition.  A lot has changed in  these 100 years, including that statement.  The 11th edition says only that the member who  made the motion may speak first in debate if he so desires.  See RONR 11th edition page 42, lines 30-35 and page 379 lines 10-14.

 

Get the "right book":  http://www.robertsrules.com/book.html

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FWIMBW, the "right of speaking last" or closing debate isn't found in the 1915 edition either.  I don't think it was ever in any of the ROs.  "rulesonline.com" seems to have just picked up the rule somewhere else.  Or made it up out of whole cloth.

Hmmm, it's in my hard copy of the 1915 4th edition in section 42 on page 179, exactly as it appears on the online version:  "The member upon whose motion the subject was brought before the assembly, is entitled to close the debate with a speech, if he has not previously exhausted his twenty minutes, but not until every one else wishing to speak has spoken".

 

Oddly, what I am not finding in the 4th edition is a statement that the maker of the motion is entitled to speak first!!  I'll keep looking. . . .

 

btw, I had some typographical errors in my post # 29 above.  Hopefully, I have corrected them.  I guess I need to type slower and proofread better.

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Maybe I was vague. Lets say board member 1 raises a point of order because board member 2 who has already spoken twice in debate has their hand up and are either not aware there is a limit on how many times one can speak or wants the chair to break the rules for him or her, and the chair rexognizes board member 1 and they explain their reasoning, and board member 2 demands to know why this 'new rule' is all of a sudden being exersized and protests to the fact that he or she cannot speak again (this type of situation)

As it stands right now, discussion bounces around and around and around, each person speaking three or four times. Also no one currently knows the rules that the person making the motion gets to speak first, and last, if they choose to.

To be more precise, the motion maker has preference in recognition over other members, if he seeks recognition at about the same time and if he has not yet spoken in debate. This generally means the motion maker speaks first, but not necessarily. As noted, there is no longer any rule which gives the motion maker any right to speak last.

I would also note that, as mentioned above, the rules for small boards are somewhat less formal. If the board is using the small board rules, members may speak any number of times. In any event, however, it seems to me the chair should rule the point not well taken, as no violation of the rules has occurred yet. The chair may already be well aware of the rule and has no intention of recognizing the member a third time. If the chair does recognize the member, then a point of order would be appropriate.

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Well, John, I just now put my 1970 7th edition of RONR....which arrived today from ebay.... to use.  The language in the 7th edition and the 11th edition about the preference afforded to the maker of a motion is virtually identical.  So, somewhere between the 1915 4th edition and the 1970 7th edition the rule and language about when the mover of the motion gets to speak changed significantly. 

 

Have you been able to find where the 1915 4th edition says the mover gets to speak first?  I can't find it in there. 

 

My next order will be a reprint of the 1876 1st or 2nd edition.  I actually want the 1st, 2nd and 3rd editions if I can find them.

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You are looking at the 100 year old 4th edition, which was published in 1915. The copyright has expired and it is the only version online as it is "in the public domain".

We are not in the 2011 11th edition. A lot has changes in these 100 years, including that statement. The 11th edition says only that the member who made the motion may speak first in debate if he so desires. See RONR 11th edition page 42, lines 30-35 and page 379 lines 10-14.

Get the "right book": http://www.robertsrules.com/book.html

Yeah, right now I only have the in brief and dummies book
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Well, by then he had had his daily fix of beignets and cafe au lait, so we can give him credit.

I am pretty sure he doesn't drink cafe au lait but I am not sure how much creamer he adds to his coffee.  I know he sets his coffee maker for his wife in the morning and he gets the left overs and he needs his first two cups to help prevent him from makin typos and other errors. :)  As to the beignets...most of us NOLA locals dont eat those things that much...you get over the powerdered sugar up your nose pretty quickly. :rolleyes:

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Is there a thing that can be done when, lets say in debate, a member speaks and gets a fact very incorrect? Can that speaker be interrupted for a correction?

Is that an inquiry of the facts?

A member could ask the chair if the member will yield for a question, and then (if permission is granted), he could ask "Is the member aware that... etc?" thus framing the correction in the form of a question, and the member who is speaking may respond.

If the member will not yield for a question, then it will not be proper to interrupt the speaker, but the member can offer the correction himself when he has an opportunity to speak in debate. In any event, however, the member offering the correction should be careful to remain within the rules of decorum, politely suggesting that the member who misspoke may have been mistaken.

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Maybe I was vague. Lets say board member 1 raises a point of order because board member 2 who has already spoken twice in debate has their hand up and are either not aware there is a limit on how many times one can speak or wants the chair to break the rules for him or her, and the chair rexognizes board member 1 and they explain their reasoning, and board member 2 demands to know why this 'new rule' is all of a sudden being exersized and protests to the fact that he or she cannot speak again (this type of situation)

As it stands right now, discussion bounces around and around and around, each person speaking three or four times. Also no one currently knows the rules that the person making the motion gets to speak first, and last, if they choose to.

Hence my advice (through experience) that if you intend to enforce rules to have a copy of the latest RONR handy with post-its as a bookmark for common violations such as when someone yells out "I call the question!!!!!!!"  (p 202) or debate issues (pp 42-44)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hence my advice (through experience) that if you intend to enforce rules to have a copy of the latest RONR handy with post-its as a bookmark for common violations such as when someone yells out "I call the question!!!!!!!" (p 202) or debate issues (pp 42-44)

Just curious....

Is there anyone here that thinks not enforcing the rules is a good idea?

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Skip the exam. Everything you need lo know about parliamentary procedure you can learn here, on this forum. For free.

 

I have been thinking about become a Certified Parliamentarian (AIP) / Registered Parlimentarian (NAP) ...  I am seeing that to keep up with the status membership...  you need to earn 20 points (AIP) for period unknown / CEU (NAP) in 6 year period ....  Seems like a LOT of money involved...

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