star1441

Amen to that. The leadership is elected annually. But the In House Counsel/Legal advisor is on a contract that is not easy to terminate. However... Y.

Thanks your comments. The main issue here is that the Association leadership- President, Secretary, Parliamentarian, COO who is a lawyer, our in house legal counsel, are the ones who flaunt and violate bedrock bylaws, out of ignorance [the elected member-secretary] or willfully [the lawyer]. The security patrol we hired and paid to protect us is burglarizing our house. In this case it is an improper notice. (The bylaw says ten days' notice , the secretary sent it in seven) In another case [ actually twice ] it was ordering open voting, by raising hands, when the bylaws say clearly 'by ballot'. And then, when called, there is no admission, no retraction , just a "gotcha"- You, a member, should have objected there and then, even if the ones in charge violated, or were asleep at the wheel. and if you did not, then we -the guardians- get a get out of jail free card. No. Yoram

A NOTICE was given about a special meeting. It was not given properly. The Bylaws say, among other things, "ten days". The notice was given seven days before the meeting. This validity question is not about the meeting itself- nothing was discussed or voted on. It was a forum for candidates for office to address the members/voters and answer questions. However, the Secretary announced that this special meeting will be eligible to be counted as one of five general meetings that each member must attend a year, to maintain active status. The tally will be held later in the year, so while the meeting is over and done, the matter is still very much open. A member raised an objection a few weeks after the meeting. He pointed out that with improperly given notice, the meeting is not valid, and cannot be counted. The reply: You did not object at the start of the meeting. You signed the attendance sheet. "Gotcha". This seems to be nonsense. A. Any other member who did not attend the meeting, and did not sign, may raise a valid objection , according to this theory? B. Also, if the objection is not to holding the (improperly noticed ) meeting, but to using it for counting purposes at a much later date, why can't a member who did attend the meeting raise the ( valid) objection after the end of the meeting but before the counting ? Or does "gotcha" rule? Thank you. Yoram

Thanks to all who answered. appreciated. Yoram

yoram kahana Sat 6/1/2019 4:30 PM Our Association's bylaw says this about giving notice for a meeting: "Section 9.4. Notice of Meetings. Notice of any Membership Meeting, specifying the date, time and location thereof, shall be given to each member by written notice sent by first class mail or by electronic transmission (including facsimile, e-mail and text message) at least ten days in advance. " The secretary sent out an email notice to all members , but only seven days before the meeting. When challenged, the excuse was that the meeting was included in the two week calendar that goes out, also by email, to all members. This calendar went out two weeks before the meeting date. The calendar lists all our activities for a two week period,on one page, divided in 14, each day in a box, with the briefest mention of each activity [space...]. The box for May 10 had: --------------------------------------------- May 10 11 AM : Candidates' Forum ( Association's Office) 1 PM Lunch ( Association's Office) ------------------------------------------------------------- Was this calendar listing a proper notice as required by the bylaw? Thank you Yoram yoram kahana Sat 6/1/2019 4:30 PM

The Board recommended punishment. The general membership voted improperly. Instead of a vote by ballot, as mandated, the vote was open, by raising of hands. The vote was later ruled null and void. Can the proposed sentence be brought again for a new vote (this time properly, by ballot), Or will this be considered double jeopardy,a second bite at the apple, and the matter should be sealed and buried? Thank you.

Our bylaws say that a special membership meeting calls for "..a notice shall be given...at least ten days in advance..." We are expecting that we will have to decide and vote on a contract soon. The Chairman of the Board announced at the last General Meeting that we will need to act faster,and said: "I propose to suspend the rules and change the notice to three days. All in favor raise your hand" , and that was that. Proper? Valid? Binding? Thank you.

At a board meeting, the president said: You understand that this next matter will be an executive session. And the discussion started. No formal motion, no second, no vote. Was this a proper and valid executive session? Are the participants bound ? Thank you.

thanks folks- fascinating discussion, but it seems to sometimes spiral up and out from the basic question- Blindsiding- certainly bad management - but is it prohibited, frowned upon by RONR, or just bad manners? ["Gotcha!!"] All your input is illuminating, edifying and fun. Appreciated. Yoram

The Chief Operating Officer [COO] is not a member but a hired hand. Thanks your detailed reply. It would be a good idea to "spell out in the rules" that, true emergencies aside, Gotcha is not effective , not fair, and should be avoided. While routine matters can be brought up without prior announcement, perhaps personal ,disciplinary matters should not.

Hello Tim- There is friction between the COO and the Board member. B-M questioned COO decisions and actions in some matters, and consulted each time with RONR Forum. He shared some responses, about the most recent matter, with another person employed by the organization,. COO maintained that B-M was disrespectful to that person, and that it is also improper for the B M to post on the RRONR FORUM, [even without revealing the name of the organization]. COO printed 15 pages of Forum responses, perhaps as proof of B M's inappropriate activities. He presented both the complaint and the print out [ambush style] to the Board hoping for some censure of B M. The question is not about " the COO, as a function of his position, received a complain about a member and, also as a function of his position, presented the complaint to the board? ". But: "QUESTION: This ambush tactic is obviously bad management. But is such blindsiding just bad manners, or is it a violation of rules of order.?"  The question is about the manner of do so. -------

The COO had a complaint about a member. COO did not place the matter on the Board's agenda [which is distributed some days before the meeting]. The COO did not tell the member [who happens to be on the Board] that the matter will be put on the agneda for immediate discussion. The matter was introduced as the last item of the day [after the prepared agenda items ended]. The COO placed in front of the Board members a 15 page document he has prepared but held hidden until the last moment. And then he asked the Board to discuss. Naturally chaos ensued. QUESTION: This ambush tactic is obviously bad management. But is such blindsiding just bad manners, or is it a violation of rules of order.? Thanks Yoram