Executive Session

[Guest Casey]

In an elected city council, operating under Robert's Rules, the motion to close a public meeting to conduct business that may properly be closed to the public under the law (executive session): should that be a motion to RECESS to executive session or a motion to ADJOURN to executive session? The executive session is a closed portion of the original public meeting that was regularly called and noticed. Any decision or action taken as a result of the executive session must, by law, be taken after the city council reconvenes in the original open, public meeting. Thus, are we recessing the public meeting for the purposes of conducting an executive session as a component of the entire meeting, or are we adjourning to a closed session...and if so, is that closed session a different meeting than the original public meeting? Thanks.

[George Mervosh]

In an elected city council, operating under Robert's Rules, the motion to close a public meeting to conduct business that may properly be closed to the public under the law (executive session): should that be a motion to RECESS to executive session or a motion to ADJOURN to executive session? The executive session is a closed portion of the original public meeting that was regularly called and noticed. Any decision or action taken as a result of the executive session must, by law, be taken after the city council reconvenes in the original open, public meeting. Thus, are we recessing the public meeting for the purposes of conducting an executive session as a component of the entire meeting, or are we adjourning to a closed session...and if so, is that closed session a different meeting than the original public meeting? Thanks.

In my view (others will disagree) it gets complicated to use the word adjourn in these motions. Simply move to enter into executive session, and move to leave or end the executive session. You aren't recessing or adjourning......just tossing the non-members out and imposing a level of secrecy on the council, then allowing the non-members to attend and continuing with our business.

The bolded part is what you're doing.

[Robert B Fish]

I've attendeda number of meetings where the board is a governmental body and subject to "sunshine" laws and where the board intends to conduct the meeting in executive session. To handle the issues, they convene and call the meeting ot order in open session. Opening exercises are conducted in open session. A motion is made - as suggested above - to move into executive session. Following the executive session, they rarely adjourn in executive session (although no rule in RONE prevents doing so) but they reopen the meeting, announce that no action was taken in the meeting and then adjourn.

Again, although no rule in RONR prevents them from taking action in executive session, either custom or the applicable statutes dictate otherwise. In some cases for example, they might meet in executive session for several hours, return to open session, and move to hire (or fire) the XD, etc. They would then adjourn.

-Bob

[Gary c Tesser]

((Thanks for moving this, O mysterious maestro of motility.))

[Rob Elsman]

In my view (others will disagree) it gets complicated to use the word adjourn in these motions. Simply move to enter into executive session, and move to leave or end the executive session. You aren't recessing or adjourning......just tossing the non-members out and imposing a level of secrecy on the council, then allowing the non-members to attend and continuing with our business.

The bolded part is what you're doing.

I agree.

[Gary c Tesser]

I agree.

Cause you know what's good for you.

[Gary Novosielski]

In an elected city council, operating under Robert's Rules, the motion to close a public meeting to conduct business that may properly be closed to the public under the law (executive session): should that be a motion to RECESS to executive session or a motion to ADJOURN to executive session? The executive session is a closed portion of the original public meeting that was regularly called and noticed. Any decision or action taken as a result of the executive session must, by law, be taken after the city council reconvenes in the original open, public meeting. Thus, are we recessing the public meeting for the purposes of conducting an executive session as a component of the entire meeting, or are we adjourning to a closed session...and if so, is that closed session a different meeting than the original public meeting? Thanks.

Neither.

Executive session is a part of the same meeting; you neither recess nor adjourn to it. You simply "go into" or "come out of" executive session. It changes the conditions of the ongoing meeting and does not start nor end a separate meeting or session. Minutes for the executive session should, however, be kept separately from those of the regular session if they contain confidential material.

[Guest Genny D. Hendrix]

Executive Session - can you make a motion/second while still in executive session? When you return to open session do you then state the motion was made

and second give?

[Gary Novosielski]

Executive Session - can you make a motion/second while still in executive session? When you return to open session do you then state the motion was made

and second give?

It's fine according to RONR, but since you are a governmental body, your state's Sunshine Laws may supersede RONR.

They may require that all substantive votes be on the record in open session. In many governmental bodies, it is common when dealing with confidential matters to hold the discussion and even propose amendments or otherwise develop the motion in executive session but then, after coming out of ES, actually make the motion and put the question in its final form without further debate.

In my state, the types of questions that may be considered in Executive Session are severely limited, and it is very rarely in order to vote while in ES. You'll need to ask your city's legal counsel how things are done where you live.

[Guest Nancy N.]

It's fine according to RONR, but since you are a governmental body, your state's Sunshine Laws may supersede RONR.

They may require that all substantive votes be on the record in open session. In many governmental bodies, it is common when dealing with confidential matters to hold the discussion and even propose amendments or otherwise develop the motion in executive session but then, after coming out of ES, actually make the motion and put the question in its final form without further debate.

In my state, the types of questions that may be considered in Executive Session are severely limited, and it is very rarely in order to vote while in ES. You'll need to ask your city's legal counsel how things are done where you live.

This assumes that Genny Hendrix belongs to the same organization as Casey, the original poster; or, at least, that the organization Genny asks about is a governmental body, too. Genny, which is it?

[Guest Nancy N.]

This assumes that Genny Hendrix belongs to the same organization as Casey, the original poster; or, at least, that the organization Genny asks about is a governmental body, too. Genny, which is it?

... For that matter, under Robert's Rules, you don't have to say a darn thing at all about anything that went on under executive session. In fact it is prohibited to reveal any of it, unless the secrecy is lifted.

[J. J.]

In my view (others will disagree) it gets complicated to use the word adjourn in these motions. Simply move to enter into executive session, and move to leave or end the executive session. You aren't recessing or adjourning......just tossing the non-members out and imposing a level of secrecy on the council, then allowing the non-members to attend and continuing with our business.

The bolded part is what you're doing.

I agree, though I would note the unfortunate practice of doing all the public business, then adjourning to executive session, in local government practice.

[Gary Novosielski]

I agree, though I would note the unfortunate practice of doing all the public business, then adjourning to executive session, in local government practice.

Except for the unfortunate use of the word "adjourn", there's nothing unfortunate about the practice, per se. Is there?

[Shmuel Gerber]

I agree, though I would note the unfortunate practice of doing all the public business, then adjourning to executive session, in local government practice.

In the example on page 222 of RONR, the motion is made as follows:

"Mr. President, ... I move that the open portion of this meeting be declared ended and that our guests be excused."

[Guest Casey]

Original poster here. Under state sunshine laws, no formal action may be taken in executive session; thus, the discussion is closed, but any action must be taken in full view of the public in the open portion of the meeting. My question was posed because the long-standing practice has been to move to "adjourn to executive session." I believe this is an erroneous use of the motion to adjourn; the intent is neither to end the meeting or to set a future date/time for the meeting to continue--the uses expressed under RONR. The state statutes are silent as to the appropriate motion to meet in executive session. For reference, however, another state's sunshine laws clearly state that a legislative body must first convene in open/public session and then recess into executive session. My state's laws--Minnesota--makes no distinction. So, really I'm trying to determine the correct procedure: to adjourn or to recess.

[Rob Elsman]

Original poster here. Under state sunshine laws, no formal action may be taken in executive session; thus, the discussion is closed, but any action must be taken in full view of the public in the open portion of the meeting. My question was posed because the long-standing practice has been to move to "adjourn to executive session." I believe this is an erroneous use of the motion to adjourn; the intent is neither to end the meeting or to set a future date/time for the meeting to continue--the uses expressed under RONR. The state statutes are silent as to the appropriate motion to meet in executive session. For reference, however, another state's sunshine laws clearly state that a legislative body must first convene in open/public session and then recess into executive session. My state's laws--Minnesota--makes no distinction. So, really I'm trying to determine the correct procedure: to adjourn or to recess.

If it is your sense that your state's sunshine laws have some bearing on your question, then you need to consult with an attorney. As far as RONR is concerned, a motion to go into executive session is an incidental main motion that is neither a motion to Adjourn nor Recess. See RONR (10th ed.), pp. 92, 93; tinted pp. 6,7, motion no. 1.

[Guest Genny Hendrix]

This assumes that Genny Hendrix belongs to the same organization as Casey, the original poster; or, at least, that the organization Genny asks about is a governmental body, too. Genny, which is it?

I am on a non-profit board.

[Gary c Tesser]

I am on a non-profit board.

So, Ms Hendrix, I think the previous answers should have answered your question. Is anything unclear?