rgodbey Posted October 18, 2019 at 05:29 PM Report Share Posted October 18, 2019 at 05:29 PM One of the many flaws of our organization is the way that they handle voting. There is a spot on the ballot for abstentions. If the members use the ballot and mark abstention, since technically they filled out the ballot, does this action count as a vote? I know RONR defines a majority by members present and voting. This is why I ask because our bylaws don't give an abstention a definition, nor do they define majority in our bylaws, and instead say that any lapses are covered by Robert's Rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hieu H. Huynh Posted October 18, 2019 at 05:36 PM Report Share Posted October 18, 2019 at 05:36 PM It seems like the member wanted to abstain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted October 18, 2019 at 05:38 PM Report Share Posted October 18, 2019 at 05:38 PM "Abstention" is well defined as "not voting" so those ballots marked as "abstain" (or whatever, like "a pox on both your houses") are equivalent to blank ballots found in the ballot box, or not returning a ballot at all: NOT "COUNTED". Next election just don't include the "Abstain" option. If somebody says it belongs, ask them where they got that rule? (Not in RONR, for sure!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Harrison Posted October 18, 2019 at 05:40 PM Report Share Posted October 18, 2019 at 05:40 PM The ballot marked as "abstain" should be counted and treated as an abstention (RONR p. 415 ll. 28-31). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted October 18, 2019 at 07:07 PM Report Share Posted October 18, 2019 at 07:07 PM 1 hour ago, rgodbey said: One of the many flaws of our organization is the way that they handle voting. There is a spot on the ballot for abstentions. If the members use the ballot and mark abstention, since technically they filled out the ballot, does this action count as a vote? I know RONR defines a majority by members present and voting. This is why I ask because our bylaws don't give an abstention a definition, nor do they define majority in our bylaws, and instead say that any lapses are covered by Robert's Rules. Well, there shouldn't need to be a spot for abstention on the ballot, but if there is, it clearly should be treated as an abstention, i.e., the same as a blank ballot. For that matter, either of those should be treated the same as a ballot that was never handed in, i.e., ignored completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted October 18, 2019 at 09:34 PM Report Share Posted October 18, 2019 at 09:34 PM (edited) 4 hours ago, rgodbey said: If the members use the ballot and mark abstention, since technically they filled out the ballot, does this action count as a vote? An abstention, by definition, is to refrain from voting. A member who marks “abstention” on a ballot has abstained, and therefore has not voted. This practice is unnecessary since members may already abstain by submitting a blank ballot, or by not submitting a ballot. Edited October 18, 2019 at 09:34 PM by Josh Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Elsman Posted October 19, 2019 at 12:04 AM Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 at 12:04 AM Pages 415-417 in the Book of Lapses covers this rather well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgodbey Posted October 19, 2019 at 03:57 PM Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 at 03:57 PM Thank you all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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