Janelle Kulak Posted October 7, 2020 at 07:00 PM Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 at 07:00 PM Good day, I am inquiring as to how it would be said in the meeting minutes, if a motion was made, seconded, but then there was no vote to follow? Does the motion still need to be noted (ex: Jane made a motion to consult an expert on the topic. John seconded the motion. Voting process not completed.)? Or does a motion not need to be noted in the minutes if the meeting moved forward without a vote? Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hieu H. Huynh Posted October 7, 2020 at 07:05 PM Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 at 07:05 PM What happened next? What did the chair say about the motion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janelle Kulak Posted October 7, 2020 at 07:13 PM Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 at 07:13 PM 6 minutes ago, Hieu H. Huynh said: What happened next? What did the chair say about the motion? There was further discussion after the seconder. Then the meeting just moved onto the next topic. No one in the meeting said anything about the need to vote still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Lages Posted October 7, 2020 at 07:29 PM Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 at 07:29 PM If that is all that happened, then the minutes should reflect that the motion was made (with the name of the maker), seconded (no name necessary), and no vote was taken. If your next meeting is held within a quarterly time period, that motion should be brought up under unfinished business. The chair at that time should urge that the motion be dealt with in some way - a vote, or postponement to the next meeting, or referral to a committee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janelle Kulak Posted October 7, 2020 at 07:31 PM Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 at 07:31 PM 2 minutes ago, Bruce Lages said: If that is all that happened, then the minutes should reflect that the motion was made (with the name of the maker), seconded (no name necessary), and no vote was taken. If your next meeting is held within a quarterly time period, that motion should be brought up under unfinished business. The chair at that time should urge that the motion be dealt with in some way - a vote, or postponement to the next meeting, or referral to a committee. Thank you for the information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Elsman Posted October 7, 2020 at 08:13 PM Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 at 08:13 PM I would add to Mr. Lages' list an indefinite postponement to kill the motion if the assembly does not desire to follow through with any action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted October 7, 2020 at 10:59 PM Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 at 10:59 PM (edited) 4 hours ago, Janelle Kulak said: I am inquiring as to how it would be said in the meeting minutes, if a motion was made, seconded, but then there was no vote to follow? Does the motion still need to be noted Any main motion which was made and was not withdrawn needs to be recorded in the minutes. 3 hours ago, Janelle Kulak said: There was further discussion after the seconder. Then the meeting just moved onto the next topic. No one in the meeting said anything about the need to vote still. Well, it should first be noted that this is extremely improper, and next time someone should say something. A pending motion needs to be disposed of in some way before the assembly can move on to the next item of business. That may involve a direct vote on the main motion, or it may involve a variety of subsidiary motions. Nonetheless, the minutes should record what happened, even although what happened was improper. Apparently what happened is "Mr. X moved that... (text of motion). After discussion, the assembly moved on to the next item of business." I agree with Mr. Lages that the motion should be taken up under Unfinished Business at the next meeting. While RONR does not address this specific situation (as it is not supposed to arise), it certainly seems to be "Unfinished Business" to me. Edited October 7, 2020 at 11:00 PM by Josh Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Katz Posted October 7, 2020 at 11:59 PM Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 at 11:59 PM Agreeing with the above, I'd note, as a general matter (so that it can be used in future cases as well) that the minutes reflect what was done at the meeting. This is usually said to indicate that they do not reflect what was said, but in this case, it instead indicates that they do not reflect what should have been done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJP Posted October 11, 2020 at 06:06 PM Report Share Posted October 11, 2020 at 06:06 PM At our annual meeting a motion was made and seconded. Vote was asked for those in favor. 8 votes counted in favor. Some discussion ensued and no votes were asked if anyone wasn't in favor. No final votes were counted. There were 19 votes available for voting. Meeting moved on to another issue. How should this be recorded in the minutes? Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Elsman Posted October 11, 2020 at 07:23 PM Report Share Posted October 11, 2020 at 07:23 PM More important than what to make of the proceedings for recording in the minutes, I would rather discuss what all went wrong: 1. After the main motion was seconded, did the chair state the question? This is one of the basic steps that the chair must perform. RONR (12th ed.) 4:24. 2. Did the chair elicit debate or amendment? This, too, is something the chair must perform. ibid. 4:27-34. 3. The chair appears to have failed to restore order after "discussion..." improperly "...ensued" during the voting. ibid. 45:6. 4. The chair erred in failing to call for votes in the negative during the voice vote. ibid. 4:35. 5. The chair erred in permitting the assembly to "mov[e] on to another issue" without seeing to it that the pending main motion, above, was firstly properly disposed of. ibid. 10:8. As to the minutes, it will be difficult to make a silver purse out of a sow's ear, as they say. My suggestion is that you recite what happened in a factual way without trying sew it up into something that makes proper sense, in terms of proper parliamentary procedure. It's going to read like a mess, because the proceedings were a mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted October 11, 2020 at 08:47 PM Report Share Posted October 11, 2020 at 08:47 PM 2 hours ago, RJP said: At our annual meeting a motion was made and seconded. Vote was asked for those in favor. 8 votes counted in favor. Some discussion ensued and no votes were asked if anyone wasn't in favor. No final votes were counted. There were 19 votes available for voting. Meeting moved on to another issue. How should this be recorded in the minutes? Thank you. It must first be understood that what happened was completely improper in a number of respects. Nonetheless, the minutes should record what happened, even although what happened was improper. Apparently what happened is "Mr. X moved that... (text of motion). There were eight votes in the affirmative, however, the vote was then interrupted and the assembly moved on to the next item of business." For both of these situations, I think the assembly should be less concerned with the exact wording to use in the minutes and more concerned with making sure these situations do not arise again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted October 12, 2020 at 01:15 PM Report Share Posted October 12, 2020 at 01:15 PM Agreeing with my colleagues, this motion should be treated as unfinished business at your next meeting, assuming it is within a quarterly time interval, and should be taken up automatically in the category of unfinished business and general orders before moving on to new business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted October 12, 2020 at 03:44 PM Report Share Posted October 12, 2020 at 03:44 PM On 10/7/2020 at 6:59 PM, Josh Martin said: I agree with Mr. Lages that the motion should be taken up under Unfinished Business at the next meeting. While RONR does not address this specific situation (as it is not supposed to arise), it certainly seems to be "Unfinished Business" to me. And I agree with those gentlemen. It is certainly business, and it is unquestionably (if improperly) unfinished. I'd add to the list of possible methods of disposing of this question when it comes up. If the members don't agree with what it proposes, they can simply vote it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJP Posted October 12, 2020 at 07:18 PM Report Share Posted October 12, 2020 at 07:18 PM The problem with this issue is that this won't be addressed within a quarterly time interval because our next annual meeting will be late summer/early fall in 2021. Is there any other way to handle this issue possibly with our Board of Directors? Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Elsman Posted October 12, 2020 at 07:23 PM Report Share Posted October 12, 2020 at 07:23 PM No, since the assembly will not meeting again within the quarterly time interval, the abandoned motion fell to the ground. Whatever authority was left with power to approve the minutes should do so as soon as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted October 12, 2020 at 07:40 PM Report Share Posted October 12, 2020 at 07:40 PM 20 minutes ago, RJP said: The problem with this issue is that this won't be addressed within a quarterly time interval because our next annual meeting will be late summer/early fall in 2021. Is there any other way to handle this issue possibly with our Board of Directors? Thank you! This does not do you any good for now, but the same motion can be renewed (made again) at your next meeting whenever that it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted October 12, 2020 at 08:56 PM Report Share Posted October 12, 2020 at 08:56 PM (edited) 1 hour ago, RJP said: The problem with this issue is that this won't be addressed within a quarterly time interval because our next annual meeting will be late summer/early fall in 2021. Is there any other way to handle this issue possibly with our Board of Directors? Thank you! In such an event, the motion "fell to the ground" since the next meeting is not within a quarterly interval. The same motion may be renewed at a regular meeting or at a special meeting called for the purpose. It seems to me that the motion could also be made at a meeting of the Board of Directors, assuming the subject matter of the motion is within the board's authority. The minutes will not be able to be approved until the next meeting. For future reference, an assembly which only meets annually should authorize the board or a committee appointed for this purpose to approve the minutes. If this is not done, however, the membership would still approve its own minutes. Edited October 12, 2020 at 08:57 PM by Josh Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJP Posted October 12, 2020 at 09:57 PM Report Share Posted October 12, 2020 at 09:57 PM Thank you for all of your knowledge. I will take this to our board to see how we should handle this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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