Guest Curious Posted August 4, 2015 at 08:30 AM Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 at 08:30 AM When a board member moves to censure another board member, does the accused get to defend themselves, Or join in discussion? How does that work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted August 4, 2015 at 10:36 AM Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 at 10:36 AM Such a motion is treated just like any other main motion. The "accused" member has as much right to enter into debate on the motion as does any other member. Although he probably should refrain from voting on the motion, he cannot be compelled to do so (RONR, 11th ed., p. 407, l. 21 to p. 408, l. 7). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted August 4, 2015 at 03:16 PM Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 at 03:16 PM Such a motion is treated just like any other main motion. The "accused" member has as much right to enter into debate on the motion as does any other member. Although he probably should refrain from voting on the motion, he cannot be compelled to do so (RONR, 11th ed., p. 407, l. 21 to p. 408, l. 7). Can he move to strike censure and insert commend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted August 4, 2015 at 03:39 PM Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 at 03:39 PM Sure, if he/she has enough chutzpah.(And trusts having a fair number of friends in the meeting.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hieu H. Huynh Posted August 4, 2015 at 04:48 PM Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 at 04:48 PM Can he move to strike censure and insert commend? Would this be considered an "indelicate act"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Curious Posted August 4, 2015 at 05:16 PM Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 at 05:16 PM Sure, if he/she has enough chutzpah.(And trusts having a fair number of friends in the meeting.)So, let's say the offense in question is ongoing, multiple personal attacks (some lengthy and vicious), and also public shaming through implication of multiple wrongdoings, with the 'threat' of evidence in possesion (but refuses to produce it upon request, but the public name-smearing and personal image and self esteem damage had already been done)How could one's 'friends' possibly commend such acts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Guest Posted August 4, 2015 at 05:29 PM Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 at 05:29 PM How could one's 'friends' possibly commend such acts? By amending the motion to strike "censure" and insert "commend". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted August 4, 2015 at 05:33 PM Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 at 05:33 PM Would this be considered an "indelicate act"? I read this and my first thought was - Shmuel Gerber got me again. Excellent work, Mr. Huynh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Curious Posted August 4, 2015 at 06:05 PM Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 at 06:05 PM By amending the motion to strike "censure" and insert "commend".Right, but wouldn't they need to say why such acts are commendable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted August 4, 2015 at 06:25 PM Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 at 06:25 PM So, let's say the offense in question is ongoing, multiple personal attacks (some lengthy and vicious), and also public shaming through implication of multiple wrongdoings, with the 'threat' of evidence in possesion (but refuses to produce it upon request, but the public name-smearing and personal image and self esteem damage had already been done)How could one's 'friends' possibly commend such acts?We just answer questions about the rules here. What your society should do about what's going on is for your society to work out. As a matter of parliamentary law, if a motion to censure is pending, it is in order for a member to move to strike the word "censure" and insert the word "commend." In most circumstances, it seems fairly unlikely that such a motion will succeed, but that's a separate question.To Mr. Mervosh's question, I believe it is even in order for the member who is the target of the proposed motion to censure to do this, but it's probably not the best idea.Right, but wouldn't they need to say why such acts are commendable?Well, they don't need to, but if they don't make a case for their amendment in debate, then the chances of it being adopted seem even slimmer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. J. Posted August 5, 2015 at 11:41 PM Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 at 11:41 PM Right, but wouldn't they need to say why such acts are commendable? No, but they could and could cite the same acts he was to be censured for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Guest Posted August 5, 2015 at 11:45 PM Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 at 11:45 PM No, but they could and could cite the same acts he was to be censured for. "could and could"? And why do you think this person was male? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nancy N. Posted August 6, 2015 at 10:51 AM Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 at 10:51 AM So, let's say the offense in question is ongoing, multiple personal attacks (some lengthy and vicious), and also public shaming through implication of multiple wrongdoings, with the 'threat' of evidence in possesion (but refuses to produce it upon request, but the public name-smearing and personal image and self esteem damage had already been done)How could one's 'friends' possibly commend such acts? By including, if the friends choose to (note the pithy accuracy in Edgar Guest's reply), in the motion to change "censure" to "amend," the reasons that the smearing and shaming and ax-murdering were justified, appropriate, perhaps rendered more in sorrow than in anger (snif sob), and actually an exercise in self-restraint, having not mentioned the dead puppies and kittens. For that matter, the original motion to change "censure" to "amend" need not have mentioned all these reasons at all: the opportunity to amend the motion, to perfect it (Reg. Penna. Dept. Agr.), is available until the main motion itself is conclusively voted on and thereby disposed of, notwithstanding not then either. I will point out, notwithstanding (O, my favorite word of the day, at least as of 7 AM) Josh Martin's endearingly characteristic dewy-eyed Pollyannish assurance that we just answer questions about the rules here, that maybe censure isn't nearly commensurate with the offenses. But that might reflect my innate inclination to pugnacity, which has got me in trouble all the time and I'm always trying to moderate it down to just punching someone in a bar with a beer bottle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted August 6, 2015 at 01:03 PM Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 at 01:03 PM By including, if the friends choose to (note the pithy accuracy in Edgar Guest's reply), in the motion to change "censure" to "amend," . . .. For that matter, the original motion to change "censure" to "amend" . . . .Perhaps you meant to say "change censure to commend"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmuel Gerber Posted August 6, 2015 at 02:46 PM Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 at 02:46 PM Perhaps you meant to say "change censure to commend"?Or perhaps after being punched with a beer bottle, the member needs some amending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BabbsJohnson Posted August 7, 2015 at 07:45 PM Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 at 07:45 PM Or perhaps after being punched with a beer bottle, the member needs some amending.This is why I keep coming back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BabbsJohnson Posted April 28, 2019 at 11:45 AM Report Share Posted April 28, 2019 at 11:45 AM On 8/4/2015 at 8:16 AM, George Mervosh said: Can he move to strike censure and insert commend? Does this require a second, and is it debateable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted April 28, 2019 at 11:52 AM Report Share Posted April 28, 2019 at 11:52 AM Certainly, as do most amendments to debatable main motions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted April 28, 2019 at 12:11 PM Report Share Posted April 28, 2019 at 12:11 PM On 8/6/2015 at 6:51 AM, Guest Nancy N. said: By including, if the friends choose to (note the pithy accuracy in Edgar Guest's reply), in the motion to change "censure" to "amend," the reasons that the smearing and shaming and ax-murdering were justified, appropriate, perhaps rendered more in sorrow than in anger (snif sob), and actually an exercise in self-restraint, having not mentioned the dead puppies and kittens. For that matter, the original motion to change "censure" to "amend" need not have mentioned all these reasons at all: the opportunity to amend the motion, to perfect it (Reg. Penna. Dept. Agr.), is available until the main motion itself is conclusively voted on and thereby disposed of, notwithstanding not then either. I will point out, notwithstanding (O, my favorite word of the day, at least as of 7 AM) Josh Martin's endearingly characteristic dewy-eyed Pollyannish assurance that we just answer questions about the rules here, that maybe censure isn't nearly commensurate with the offenses. But that might reflect my innate inclination to pugnacity, which has got me in trouble all the time and I'm always trying to moderate it down to just punching someone in a bar with a beer bottle. Nosey's resurrection of this old thread is welcome only because it gives us a chance to read this once again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. J. Posted April 28, 2019 at 05:19 PM Report Share Posted April 28, 2019 at 05:19 PM On 8/5/2015 at 7:45 PM, Edgar Guest said: "could and could"? And why do you think this person was male? "could, and could." The motion that "Member X be censured for insulting nuns" could be amended to "Member X be commended for insulting nuns." I probably wouldn't vote for the amended version, but it would be in order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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