Lauriemcg Posted December 24, 2014 at 01:42 PM Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 at 01:42 PM Hello again, I'm struggling with the difference between a person sitting on a BoD who is not a Member of the association vs a Member on the BoD.. The bylaws state that in order to vote you must be a Member and each member gets 1 vote per owned lot (HOA), and the BoD allows for non-members on the Board, isn't that a conflict of some sort when it comes to voting? Underlying the question is that as an HOA it is clearly stated in the state law for HOA that lot owners are Members. "Association membership.: The membership of an association at all times shall consist exclusively of the owners of all real property over which the association has jurisdiction, both developed and undeveloped." There are a few homes with renters. Some would like the renters to be able to participate on the BoD, others do not want renters on the BoD. Seems that if renters were given the option for membership and or access on the BoD that would potentially allow 2 votes per lot (the home owner and the renter). Thanks for your thoughts regarding if or who RONR speaks on the subject. Laurie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted December 24, 2014 at 01:55 PM Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 at 01:55 PM Here's a bylaw interpretation for you (free, and worth every cent): If the bylaw restriction is all inclusive ("The bylaws state that in order to vote you must be a Member and each member gets 1 vote per owned lot (HOA)") then the non-owner could not vote even when serving on the board. (This is contrary to RONR with respect to non-members of committees, but maybe not Boards or elected officers.) But they are your bylaws for your association to interpret (p. 588) as you collectively see fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Guest Posted December 24, 2014 at 02:29 PM Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 at 02:29 PM Seems that if renters were given the option for membership and or access on the BoD that would potentially allow 2 votes per lot (the home owner and the renter). Yes. If your bylaws permitted non-owners to serve on the board then it's possible that both an owner and renter could serve on the board and each would (usually) have a vote. Of course the members could always refuse to elect either. Or both. Whether or not this would be a bad rule is up to the association. You might want to also check applicable law. If the law says that only owners can be members (and that all owners are members) of the association, it might also say that only members of the association (therefore only owners) can serve on the board. Though you might still have a problem with shared ownership (but I'm sure that problem has been solved a long time ago). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transpower Posted December 24, 2014 at 02:36 PM Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 at 02:36 PM State law trumps your bylaws or rules. Clearly only owners can be members of your HOA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted December 24, 2014 at 02:45 PM Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 at 02:45 PM State law trumps your bylaws or rules. Clearly only owners can be members of your HOA. Yes, but that wasn't the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted December 24, 2014 at 03:49 PM Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 at 03:49 PM I agree with Mr. Guest. If the bylaws do allow non-members to serve on the board, then I think it is possible for both an owner and his tenant to be board members and both would have a vote (on the board). The tenant would not be a member of the HOA and therefore would not be able to vote in members' meetings, but he could vote in board meetings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Lages Posted December 24, 2014 at 05:00 PM Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 at 05:00 PM Hello again, I'm struggling with the difference between a person sitting on a BoD who is not a Member of the association vs a Member on the BoD.. The bylaws state that in order to vote you must be a Member and each member gets 1 vote per owned lot (HOA), and the BoD allows for non-members on the Board, isn't that a conflict of some sort when it comes to voting? You say that "the BoD allows for non-members on the board". But it is very unlikely that board has the authority to make that decision. What do your bylaws say about who may be elected to the board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Guest Posted December 24, 2014 at 05:12 PM Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 at 05:12 PM You say that "the BoD allows for non-members on the board". But it is very unlikely that board has the authority to make that decision. What do your bylaws say about who may be elected to the board? I'm hoping that was a typo and should have said, "the bylaws allow for non-members on the board". I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted December 24, 2014 at 06:47 PM Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 at 06:47 PM I'm struggling with the difference between a person sitting on a BoD who is not a Member of the association vs a Member on the BoD.. The bylaws state that in order to vote you must be a Member and each member gets 1 vote per owned lot (HOA), and the BoD allows for non-members on the Board, isn't that a conflict of some sort when it comes to voting? There may not be any conflict.Are you sure that the rule in question applies to voting on the board? It might be intended to apply only to voting in meetings of the membership. In many HOAs, voting at meetings of the full membership will be based on the number of lots a member holds, but for the board, it's one member, one vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauriemcg Posted December 24, 2014 at 06:54 PM Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 at 06:54 PM The current bylaws are silent on who can serve on the Board. The revision we are working on will specify only members serve on the Board, The state law states members are owners. I'm hoping that was a typo and should have said, "the bylaws allow for non-members on the board". I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Laurie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Ed Posted December 24, 2014 at 06:58 PM Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 at 06:58 PM When it comes to meetings of the HOA, and who can and cannot be a member, you will want to contact a lawyer. Many jurisdictions have statutes covering HOAs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Guest Posted December 24, 2014 at 07:30 PM Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 at 07:30 PM When it comes to meetings of the HOA, and who can and cannot be a member, you will want to contact a lawyer. But, once again, this thread is about membership on the board, not membership in the association. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauriemcg Posted December 24, 2014 at 09:43 PM Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 at 09:43 PM This has been very helpful. Yes it is about board membership. And I hadn't really considered the difference between voting during membership meetings and board meetings. Again our bylaws don't specify voting seperately between board and membership. I think it likely should. A discussion I'll have when I get back next week. Thanks again all for the discussions and questions. I understand if something slips into needing legal advice this is not the place and don't expect it to be given as such. Just looking for rules that may be available in the RONR to help us understand and build a more solid foundation to work from. Laurie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted December 24, 2014 at 10:04 PM Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 at 10:04 PM This has been very helpful. Yes it is about board membership. And I hadn't really considered the difference between voting during membership meetings and board meetings. Again our bylaws don't specify voting seperately between board and membership. I think it likely should. A discussion I'll have when I get back next week.I don't know that there is necessarily a real need to address voting in board meetings vs voting in membership meetings in your bylaws unless it's causing a problem or people just don't understand the distinction. It is elementary that only board members vote in board meetings and only HOA members vote in general membership meetings. There really shouldn't be a need to elaborate on that in the bylaws unless you have members who just don't understand the basic concept that people can vote only in the bodies to which they belong....i.e., board members vote in board meetings and HOA members vote in membership meetings. Some people may be members of both and therefore get to vote in both types of meetings. Others don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transpower Posted December 24, 2014 at 11:31 PM Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 at 11:31 PM But the issue here is members of the board who are not members of the assembly. Post #10 says that the revised bylaws will specify that only members may serve on the board, and so that should solve the problem. Regardless of what happens, the board cannot do anything which conflicts with the decisions of the assembly, and the assembly consists only of owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Guest Posted December 24, 2014 at 11:42 PM Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 at 11:42 PM . . . the assembly consists only of owners. The assembly consists of the members of the body that is meeting who are present at the meeting. At a board meeting, the assembly consists of the board members present. "The assembly" is not synonymous with "the general membership". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauriemcg Posted December 24, 2014 at 11:49 PM Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 at 11:49 PM The assembly consists of the members of the body that is meeting who are present at the meeting. At a board meeting, the assembly consists of the board members present. "The assembly" is not synonymous with "the general membership".A good point. My meaning was general membership. Thanks ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transpower Posted December 25, 2014 at 03:04 PM Report Share Posted December 25, 2014 at 03:04 PM In RONR, "assembly" usually means the "general membership"--not the board. I most certainly do NOT agree with Edgar Guest here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted December 25, 2014 at 03:57 PM Report Share Posted December 25, 2014 at 03:57 PM In RONR, "assembly" usually means the "general membership"--not the board. I most certainly do NOT agree with Edgar Guest here. I certainly hope you are not disagreeing with the statement that "At a board meeting, the assembly consists of the board members present." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transpower Posted December 25, 2014 at 05:14 PM Report Share Posted December 25, 2014 at 05:14 PM Of course not, Daniel.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Coronite Posted December 25, 2014 at 05:36 PM Report Share Posted December 25, 2014 at 05:36 PM Well then, would the disagreement be with the The assembly consists of the members of the body that is meeting who are present at the meeting. ?? Or the "The assembly" is not synonymous with "the general membership". ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted December 25, 2014 at 05:41 PM Report Share Posted December 25, 2014 at 05:41 PM RONR Chapter 1 should clear all that up for you. (I trust someone gave you a copy for Christmas!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Coronite Posted December 26, 2014 at 02:47 AM Report Share Posted December 26, 2014 at 02:47 AM *I'm* clear. I was curious what Transpower's disagreement was. Already have a copy. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transpower Posted December 26, 2014 at 02:15 PM Report Share Posted December 26, 2014 at 02:15 PM 1stChurch, when the term "assembly" is used without qualification in RONR, it means a meeting of the general membership. My point comes from RONR (11th ed.), p. 483, ll. 6-9: "In any event, no action of the board can alter or conflict with any decision made by the assembly of the society, and any such action of the board is null and void...." In Lauriemcg's organization, only owners in the HOA are members of the assembly, not tenants. If there are tenants on the board, they still would be unable to do anything contrary to what has been adopted by the assembly. So what would be the purpose of having tenants on the board? None, as far as I can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted December 26, 2014 at 02:39 PM Report Share Posted December 26, 2014 at 02:39 PM 1stChurch, when the term "assembly" is used without qualification in RONR, it means a meeting of the general membership. Well, this statement goes a bit too far, but since it apparently has nothing to do with the point that you say you are making, it's not worth fussing about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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